Wow koala come down. This is why I prefer not to debate you, your rude and arrogant.

This always happens when you talk about the whole Israel/Palestine situation. Nothing but over-reactive rage, usually from the pro-Palestine side but the pro-Israel side sometimes as well.

The facts of the matter are that:

1.) Palestine, or at-least a good part of it, is dominated by terrorist elements such as Hamas. Palestine will never function as a nation until Jihadists there no longer have their way.

2.) The Gaza Strip is already on the verge of collapse:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/02/gaza-becoming-uninhabitable-as-society-can-no-longer-support-itself-report

There might be hope for the West Bank, as the terrorist influence there is much lower and that area is populated by more moderate Muslims. However, "Palestine" as we currently think of it will not work without some major changes.

"Palestinians of Gaza are living in a giant concentration camp."
No, they are not. Did people in concentration camps get money and then use it to build tunnels so they could blow up civilians? Did people in concentratin camps launch rocket attacks on Berlin? Did people in concentration camps have an extremist militia running the camps? Did people in concentration camps have relative automomy? You might be able to get away with ghettoes, but saying Gaza ia a concentration camp is pure emotional fantasy.

" did people in concentration camps get money and then use it to build tunnels so they could blow up civilians? "

XD best quote of this entire conversation lol

Btw 674 does not represent my views at all

thx conservative. I try

Edit: Same for me conservative. Muslims are ok, even if Islam is dangerous to the west. And racism is never acceptable

Edited 1/14/2016 22:05:58

Muslims were once more tolerant (if only because they realized the jizya taxes were beneficial and better than wasting energy on persecution when the economic strain would cause most to convert. it was never out of the goodness of their heart. They wer). However, they always had the culture of miltiant jihad; Mohammed was a warlord more then preacher. And I judge Muslims by what they do today.

Many Muslims societies are tolerant nowadays, not only in the past. And really, give me one Western/European Christian nation during the Middle Age having this degree of tolerance that existed in the Muslim world? I bet you would find none, or few having mere tolerant policies towards Jews or Muslims. Actually the only ancient nation that could have been an example of tolerance would be Ethiopia, but it is not even a Western World civilization... Byzantium was also tolerant towards Muslims, depending on the period.

"What led to the situation we know currently in Palestine and other places, are mainly results of socio economical factors, not culture/religion."
That is wrong. They blow themselves up in the name of Allah, not cuz they're unemployed.

If you analyzed the situation you would know that thes epeople that blow up themselves in the name of Allah, are desperate people most of the time or people having traumas.

I know. I wasn't referring to your hatred of Muslims, but your other posts detailing your hatred of blacks, etc. I understand your distaste of Muslims, but must say that while Islam is a cancer on Western civilization, some individual Muslims are ok. My disagreements with you are mostly on other subjects.

"Many Muslims societies are tolerant nowadays, not only in the past. And really, give me one Western/European Christian nation during the Middle Age having this degree of tolerance that existed in the Muslim world? I bet you would find none, or few having mere tolerant policies towards Jews or Muslims. Actually the only ancient nation that could have been an example of tolerance would be Ethiopia, but it is not even a Western World civilization... Byzantium was also tolerant towards Muslims, depending on the period."
Jesus fucking Christ. I AGREED WITH YOU MUSLIMS WERE MORE TOLERANT IN THE PAST!!! I just stated the reasons for that tolerance. Also, most Christian intolerance came about because they thought they were saving the souls of the misguided (not saying it was ok). Secondly, name one specific example of a Muslim nation being more tolerant than any European nation or America.

Also Koala, we see well-to-do Westerners in Britian going off to join ISIS. Do you honestly think that if they wanted a better life and economic status they would go to IRAQ!?

My opinion is Islam is not a dangerous religion in general, however many passages of the Quran make me wince

"Also the past is irrelevant to this discussion we're discussing the present situation in the middle east not shit that happened in europe 400 years ago."
I must say, 674 is on point for most of this discussion.

And really, give me one Western/European Christian nation during the Middle Age having this degree of tolerance that existed in the Muslim world?

Lithuania.

I respectfully disagree Conservative. Islam is not beneficial to any nation. In India, it causes divide and strife. In the Middle East, genocide, persecution, strife and poverty. In Europe, crime and rape (Cologne). Some Muslims are good people, but the religion goes against Western Liberal values

In the Middle East it caused huge growth economically and scientifically. (About Islam).

Edited 1/14/2016 22:22:30

That's fair 674. I think people just don't like how you use goyyim, and try to constantly get a rise. But you make valid points in this arguement

General I see where your point is coming from, and Islam isn't exactly known for its positive effects. I mean, you don't drive down the road in Iran and see signs saying ' Allah loves you!' Or ' please join The Allah blessed missionary fund! '. But we must respect there right to practice the religion they want. Funny enough, by measure of violence, Islam today is where Christianity was at the time of Columbus

Edited 1/14/2016 22:24:52

The trade and science was boosted primarily by the Arabs. The Arabs would have not invaded and spread without proper impetus.

No, they are not. Did people in concentration camps get money

Funny you talk about this, ever heard of the Ghetto of Warsaw? If not I advise you to watch the Pianist (a very good movie). There Polish and Central European Jews were imprisoned in an entire section of the city of Warsaw, they could not escape from there, and despite their dire and miserable situation they could still live barely with people working, and getting money (or something similar like bartering food for services etc). This is exactly the same situation nowadays in Gaza.

to build tunnels so they could blow up civilians?

Blowing up civilians? ahah they first try to reach the Israeli army, and the main use of these tunnels is just to escape the living hell that is Gaza nowadays due to this inhuman blockade.

Did people in concentratin camps launch rocket attacks on Berlin?

No they were killed, Nazi were more radical in their means, but well can we compare the Nazis and the State of Israel? Of course not.

Did people in concentration camps have an extremist militia running the camps?

what do you mean by extremist? In ghettos indeed you had a kind of resistance, desperate resistance (people in Gaza are also desperate), and they fought the Nazis before this very ghetto was annihilated.

Did people in concentration camps have relative automomy? You might be able to get away with ghettoes, but saying Gaza ia a concentration camp is pure emotional fantasy.

Ghetto yes, but I was referring to the Warsaw ghetto under the Nazis, not the Venetian ghetto or any other European ghettos you could find, where the Jews lived with a relative autonomy and peace for hundreds of years, the Ghetto of Warsaw during the German occupation was a bloody hell. And Gaza despite being better, is also a bloody hell, with people not able to escape, people suffering of starving and misery. This is why extremism is rising in Gaza, you would also notice Hamas is not predominant in some other parts of Palestine (like Cisjordan and see Fatah) again if Extremist Hamas won the elections you have the very reasons there in Gaza.

Edited 1/14/2016 22:28:57

by measure of violence, Islam today is where Christianity was at the time of Columbus

No, Muslims have not killed about 40 million people through diesease and conflict.

Personally the idea of the Israel Palestine conflict stems from one thing: Israel was founded on the idea that it would be a homeland for the Jews.

Because of that concept, it gives neighboring countries a reason to hate it, Palestinians a right to proclaim independence, and Israel an excuse to settle that land. It was created as a Jewish homeland. And I'm speaking as a Jew.

The solution is not a Jewish and Arab state in the area. What is needed is one state. A country made to not cater specifically towards either side in the conflict. A nation that respects the wish of both Palestinian and Israelis, but shows no privilege or prejudice against either. Maybe, with that, we can have peace in an area which has been covered by media nonstop for violence between these two groups.