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Is there a divide growing among Leftists?: 2/3/2016 19:16:28


Eklipse {TJC}
Level 56
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I generally consider myself more Center-Right, and focus a bit more on right-wing politics. However, I also make a hard effort to keep appraised of both sides. On that note, there's a reoccurring conflict I've started to note going on between people on the Left. This conflict tends to focus around multiculturalism and Islamic extremism. One side, the "Mainstream" for lack of a better term, believes that multi-culturalism and tolerance are the key to dealing with extremism. The other side, made up of primarily (but not exclusively) Atheists, believes that the Left has become almost too tolerant and is ignoring some very real problems.

However, I am not an expert on this matter and don't proclaim to be. I was hoping that people who identify themselves as being politically leftist could clarify on this. Is the Left in danger of splitting in half over the above problems?
Is there a divide growing among Leftists?: 2/3/2016 19:21:44


[WOLF] The Conservative
Level 56
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personally as being left on many issues, no. The left is very united on almost every issue. The days of Conservatives democrats Vs The hippies are over and the hippies won.
Is there a divide growing among Leftists?: 2/3/2016 19:44:18


Hitchslap
Level 56
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it's not really a divide among leftists, since new atheists represent a very small part of left (usually left, but it is not a political group per say so there may be some right wing new atheists too). It is specifically a "war" between the *Regressive* Left (Glenn Greenwald, Cenk Uygur, Reza Aslan, Noam Chomsky) and the New Atheists (Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, Bill Maher, Christopher Hitchens)

Here is a few link if you are interested by the subject:

New Atheists Vs Progressives | Proposing A Ceasefire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=As67_rhvTVY

Sam Harris and Cenk Uygur Clear the Air on Religious Violence and Islam
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVl3BJoEoAU

Chomsky on Hitchens, Harris and Skinner
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt9QCAUPPeY

Maajid Nawaz on Sam Harris and the Regressive Left
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6Vjn3d70UQ

Edited 2/3/2016 20:15:13
Is there a divide growing among Leftists?: 2/3/2016 23:44:32


[AOE] JaiBharat909
Level 56
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I generally find New Atheists like Bill Maher to have a surprising libertarian note to their views...especially when it comes to foreign policy and immigration.
Is there a divide growing among Leftists?: 2/4/2016 00:01:26


Hitchslap
Level 56
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it is really a case-by-case thing. Most of the New Atheists are against war, but this is not that case for all of them. Christopher Hitchens being the prime example of the contrary.

The whole fight between the progressive left and the new atheist is on how we should tackle ideologies, especially Islam. Atheist don't hesitate to take the gloves off and being unapologetic when talking about Islam and the beliefs held by some, if not most of the people in the muslim world. And they argue that the progressive left are muslim apologists. The progressives (or "regressives" if you are in the New Atheist camp) argue that New Atheists are patronizing minorities and being islamophobic bigots...
Is there a divide growing among Leftists?: 2/4/2016 01:34:03


The Lord
Level 52
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I'm center-right but there clearly is a schism between the progressives/collectivists and the liberals/libertarians on the left.
Is there a divide growing among Leftists?: 2/4/2016 06:06:55


(((Tabby Juggernaut)))
Level 50
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Abrahamic religions and Atheism are inherently uncompromisable rational positions. Real tolerance has to include tolerance of non-violent intolerance from these groups since it is inherently impossible for such groups above to be religiously tolerant. Intolerance from such groups does not necessarily imply hatred, instead this is just an integral part of their faith systems that can not be removed. Modern Jewish (some Ultra-Orthodox groups) and Christian fundamentalists (Protestant traditionalist, Catholic traditionalist and the more radical Jewish Christian groups) and most radical atheists are mostly peaceful, so are some non-violent Salafi Islamist groups (such as what some newspapers have talked about). It is inherently impossible for members of such faith systems (Abrahamic religions or atheism) to not criticize other faith systems, but it is possible and actually easy for members of such faith systems to be peaceful.

Monotheism and atheism are inherently exclusive. There is just no way around it at least in the Abrahamic case since according to atheism atheists at least do not have to defend atheism and purge all theistic influences on the threat of eternal punishment.

Edited 2/4/2016 06:13:46
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