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Rubio just dropped out: 3/16/2016 23:12:37


[AOE] JaiBharat909
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Russia was not justified to invade Ukraine, nor take Crimea, nor invade Syria.

Russia didn't do #1 or #3. And #2 was justified by a democratic referendum, which the West is just unwilling to accept as true and so smears it as a rigged election even thought they have no proof of such a thing occurring. Also Putin had permission from Assad, the democratically elected leader of Syria, to engage in military engagements against ISIS in Syria.

So was Cruz not a small politician in these years?

No he wasn't. Being a small politician would be like serving in your state legislature or being part of your local government.

Edited 3/16/2016 23:13:20
Rubio just dropped out: 3/16/2016 23:14:41


Ox
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Hehe, Assad was only kind of democratically elected ;) although I agree with pretty much the above. Mindlessly antagonising Russia is not getting anybody anywhere.
Rubio just dropped out: 3/16/2016 23:16:24


Thomas 633
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Being a senator isn't smalltime. Plus he came from texas.
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Everything's bigger in Texas.

EDIT: Warlight hates ascii.

Edited 3/16/2016 23:50:44
Rubio just dropped out: 3/16/2016 23:17:31


Ox
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Rubio just dropped out: 3/16/2016 23:51:02


Thomas 633
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thx, looks like the actual flag now.
Rubio just dropped out: 3/17/2016 00:46:00


Genghis 
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The issue with popular sovereignty is bleeding Kansas
Rubio just dropped out: 3/17/2016 01:23:08


Жұқтыру
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Russia was not justified to invade Ukraine, nor take Crimea, nor invade Syria.

Russia didn't do #1 or #3. And #2 was justified by a democratic referendum, which the West is just unwilling to accept as true and so smears it as a rigged election even thought they have no proof of such a thing occurring.


Please don't be propogandised by RT, I don't want to deal with both a patriotic American and a patriotic Russian. Now, technically, it hasn't really invaded Rada Ukraine, but it definitely is bullying it, and there was loads of propoganda for it in Russia, the #ПутинВвдеиВойска (PutinSendtheTroops) hashtag was trendy for a bit. Now, what it is doing is supporting separatist countries with an united Novorossiya-Starayarossiya armed force, and although it isn't sending too many troops there (yet, anyway), it has sent loads of military equipment.

Why on Earth would it be democratic? No major Russian election is democratic, and is it really democratic when the military forces are in Crimea, and the ones holding this? A few polls were taken found that majority of folk just wanted to keep on being an Ukrainian autonomous oblast, and it'd make sense - even with polls in Russian-dominated sites in Kazakhstan and other countries, they don't want to join the Russian homeland, they just don't want that kind of hassle. You know how much the Ossetians and Abkhazians wanted independence from Georgia? According to a few Russian/Abkhazian/Ossetian government-sponsored polls, in some sites, over 100%. That's how much they want independence from Georgia. 96% in Crimea? No way it's going to be that high. Almost every modern "democracy" has rigged votes - India, America, Brazil, Japan, Russia. And the more powerful the country is, the more likely the vote has to be rigged.

Yes, it obviously did invade Syria (though not attacking the SAR), you later say it yourself.

Also Putin had permission from Assad, the democratically elected leader of Syria, to engage in military engagements against ISIS in Syria.


And America had permission from Kurdistan, IR, NCSROF, and Base, while Russia has support only from the SAR and Kurdistan. Now, I know the SAR is UN-recognised - but so is the IR. And what importance is that anyway, UN membership? Do you really think Syria controls Er-Raqqa just since it is recognised to?

No he wasn't. Being a small politician would be like serving in your state legislature or being part of your local government.


We have different meanings, then. Small politician = anything not in the 2 seats with the most power (in America, president and I think vice president).

Rubio just dropped out: 3/17/2016 01:29:45


Thomas 633
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Do we rig? And evidence?
Rubio just dropped out: 3/17/2016 01:34:38


[AOE] JaiBharat909
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it hasn't really invaded Rada Ukraine, but it definitely is bullying it

You literally said Russia invaded Ukraine - "Russia was not justified to invade Ukraine" - and now you're saying it didn't invade it. And who cares about a little bullying?? Get out of the utopian world of rainbows and butterflies. This is geopolitics. This is the ugly reality of the world. Russia has a clear national security interest in protecting Eastern Europe from encroaching UN-NATO influence, and it took actions to protect itself. It never declared war on The Ukraine, did not sent soldiers into Rada Ukraine under orders from the Duma, and did not try to lead a coup of the "democratically elected" Petro Poroshenko.

Why on Earth would it be democratic? No major Russian election is democratic, and is it really democratic when the military forces are in Crimea, and the ones holding this?

Putin's approval ratings according to the Levada Center are nearly 90%. Putin has no need to rig Russian elections when he already has incredible popularity and public support. And don't come back saying Levada Center is a propaganda arm: "Since it was founded in 1987, originally as the All-Union Public Opinion Research Center, the Levada Center has conducted the country's most credible surveys on social and political topics. It is known around the world for its objectivity and professionalism."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/datablog/2015/jul/23/vladimir-putins-approval-rating-at-record-levels

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/why-the-kremlin-hates-levada-center/480433.html

Also your point on how an election is democratic with the military forces in Crimea is completely irrelevant. You really think the Russian military was going to start shooting up Crimean citizens if they voted against joining Russia? That doesn't even make sense.

Yes, it obviously did invade Syria (though not attacking the SAR), you later say it yourself.

I said they had "permission from Assad, the democratically elected leader of Syria, to engage in military engagements against ISIS in Syria". Its not an invasion if they have permission. In the Gulf War of 1990 the US landed troops in Kuwait to liberate the nation. Would you call than invasion? I wouldn't considering they were there to free them and defeat the enemy (Iraq). The same situation applies here. Assad asks Putin for help to take out ISIS. Putin with clear permission engages in military activities. If anything, you can call US/NATO military activities in Syria an invasion because last time I checked they don't have permission from Assad to do so.

Edited 3/17/2016 01:39:03
Rubio just dropped out: 3/17/2016 01:39:27


GeneralPE
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Jai, Putin is only popular because of all the evil, murderous nationalists in Russia. They don't count as actual people though, so his support is really much lower.
Rubio just dropped out: 3/17/2016 01:41:34


Thomas 633
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What a (v)lad!
Rubio just dropped out: 3/17/2016 01:53:01


[AOE] JaiBharat909
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Jai, Putin is only popular because of all the evil, murderous nationalists in Russia. They don't count as actual people though, so his support is really much lower.

What does this even mean? You really think that the most trusted and independent polling group in Russia doctored opinion polls to read a nearly 90% approval rating?? If I was going to rig an opinion poll and make it seem credible at the same time, would you really make the approval rating 86%?? Come on guys. Let's not be conspiracy theorists here.

Read this - https://meduza.io/en/feature/2015/12/10/opinion-the-truth-about-putin-s-86-percent-approval-rating
Rubio just dropped out: 3/17/2016 01:54:57


GeneralPE
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forgot /sarc
Rubio just dropped out: 3/17/2016 01:57:57


[AOE] JaiBharat909
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wait a second...PE was that sarcasm? I should have warned you I'm bad at picking up sarcasm.
Rubio just dropped out: 3/17/2016 02:17:43


Eklipse
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So, we have Jai, an American, arguing that Russia's actions have been justified.

And we have Xy, a former Belarus resident, arguing that Russia's actions have not been justified.

The roles have been reversed. What madness is this?

Edited 3/17/2016 02:18:04
Rubio just dropped out: 3/17/2016 02:20:27


Major General Smedley Butler
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I have to go with X here , no one is really justified in supporting nationalist groups in other countries.
Rubio just dropped out: 3/17/2016 02:33:35


[AOE] JaiBharat909
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^LOL that's exactly what the US did by supporting the coup of Yanukovich by ultra-nationalist Ukrainians and sending Senator McCain to stand in "solidarity" with the Ukrainian people. People forget that the Poroshenko government and the armies fighting the Eastern Ukrainian rebels are neo-nazis.

http://www.workers.org/articles/2014/07/11/dissecting-ukraines-democracy-poroshenko-neo-nazis/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11025137/Ukraine-crisis-the-neo-Nazi-brigade-fighting-pro-Russian-separatists.html
Rubio just dropped out: 3/17/2016 03:11:13


Major General Smedley Butler
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Jai, both me and X know this and have argued against people who supported it before. That does not leave Russia free of verbal attack because someone else did it.
Rubio just dropped out: 3/17/2016 03:54:45


[AOE] JaiBharat909
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^Agreed, but in all due respect Russia gets excessive criticism from the West. Literally the only opinions you hear in the media come from Russophobic McCarthyists. Almost every major power has made mistakes in the foreign policy arena, but that doesn't mean we should transfer blame to a single entity because we've had historically bad relations with them.
Rubio just dropped out: 3/17/2016 05:20:27


Жұқтыру
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You literally said Russia invaded Ukraine - "Russia was not justified to invade Ukraine" - and now you're saying it didn't invade it.


For someone who likes to brag about his "misrepresentation" skills, you certainly do loads of it. I said Rada Ukraine - the Ukrainian government and what it controls, not Donetsk nor Luhansk (which most see as part of Ukraine, still). Furthermore, Russia can still be thought as to invade Ukraine, as it did take Crimea obviously against Rade Ukrainian permission.

And who cares about a little bullying?? Get out of the utopian world of rainbows and butterflies. This is geopolitics.


Who cares about one fellow killed? This is a riot, 50 folk are killed. That is what you say, now.

Russia has a clear national security interest in protecting Eastern Europe from encroaching UN-NATO influence


Russia has no national security problems, not since 1949. America is not foolish enough to attack it when there are so many other smaller countries that are much easier prey, since they don't have atomic bombs. And frankly, I'd rather Russia surrender to America than Russia invade Crimea.

did not sent soldiers into Rada Ukraine under orders from the Duma


Sent soldiers anyway. Before Russia officially took Crimea, Russian soldiers took Crimea.

Putin's approval ratings according to the Levada Center are nearly 90%. Putin has no need to rig Russian elections when he already has incredible popularity and public support. And don't come back saying Levada Center is a propaganda arm: "Since it was founded in 1987, originally as the All-Union Public Opinion Research Center, the Levada Center has conducted the country's most credible surveys on social and political topics. It is known around the world for its objectivity and professionalism."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/datablog/2015/jul/23/vladimir-putins-approval-rating-at-record-levels

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/why-the-kremlin-hates-levada-center/480433.html


Yeah, he is supported greatly in Russia, I don't deny that. He's far better than most the other candidates, but there is a net, there's no risking this stuff, and how folk feel. Vote rigging will be done as needed, as it is done everywhere else, in India, America so on.

Also your point on how an election is democratic with the military forces in Crimea is completely irrelevant. You really think the Russian military was going to start shooting up Crimean citizens if they voted against joining Russia? That doesn't even make sense.


Well, no, it's just full-rigging on unneutral electings, and also intimidation and impartial "discouraging" of wrong votes. I mean, 96%: if you asked 25 folk, only 1 fellow in Crimea would say they were against union with Russia, and I mean, 10% of the population was ethnically Ukrainian, anyway. And obviously, it makes sense. If you shoot someone who would vote against, then you don't have an against voter.

I said they had "permission from Assad, the democratically elected leader of Syria, to engage in military engagements against ISIS in Syria".


You know, let me clean up a Russian myth right now: Bashar Assad was far from elected. Just to give you an idea, as official policy, non-Muslims were not allowed to vote. At that's just of the SAR, not of Syria. And again, even America has support of more sides in the war than Russia. Thankfully, Russia is leaving there.

Its not an invasion if they have permission.


Yeah, it wouldn't be an invasion if Russian forces stayed in the SAR, but truth is, they're bombing the Mashriq, along with everyone else.

In the Gulf War of 1990 the US landed troops in Kuwait to liberate the nation. Would you call than invasion?


Tsh, "liberate". I think the word you mean is "free", and that is propoganda pshhh. Anyhow, yes, America invaded Iraq, which had what was formerly Kuwaiti government lands. It's like asking the House of Romanov if to invade Russia, and they say yes. Doesn't mean there is permission.

The same situation applies here. Assad asks Putin for help to take out ISIS. Putin with clear permission engages in military activities.


And so Russia invades the Masrhiq. As I said, America has much more permissions than Russia.

If anything, you can call US/NATO military activities in Syria an invasion because last time I checked they don't have permission from Assad to do so.


Assad rules one country, one faction, not 4. Just the SAR.

evil, murderous nationalists in Russia.


Shouting Allahu Akbar would get you killed in Moskva, you'd love it. Not to mention all the hate to the dirty Kazakhs and Mongols.

And we have Xy, a former Belarus resident, arguing that Russia's actions have not been justified.


Well, I used to live in Russia, too, but to be frank, Belarus is not Russia (and the government and folk try to emphasise it - for example, in Sweden and Germany, there were a few petitions to get them to stop calling Belarus "Vitrussland/Weißrussland" (White Russia/Rus Land) and to call them Belarus.
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