And I'm not just talking about death tolls. Islamic countries, even in places like Indonesia and Malaysia, are horribly off compared to Christian ones. That is not a coincidence.

"It is likely that between 3,000 and 5,000 were executed"
I don't even know what it is bruh

A single truncated quote? And you are not even able to read it entirely? Let me help you give you an additional quote from the link you provided "García Cárcel estimates that the total number processed by the Inquisition throughout its history was approximately 150,000". About these 5,000 they were people that were executed sentenced to death but it does count other massacres, plus the mass slaughtering in America under Spanish rule. Try better next time.

But we aren't, because we didn't fuck up our nations.

You did not yet, although if people like Ted Cruz or Trump are elected it will end up in a similar way sadly for you.

And how come Australia, USA, Canada, South Africa, and even some African nations aren't fucked up as badly? They had a lot more colonialism.

USA, Canada or Australia are nations that practically annihilated and wiped out the native populations there, so saying it was not fucked up for the people living there before the Europeans came is an euphemism. And South Africa? Did you miss Apartheid?

Muslim Ottomans were horrible rulers

Horrible rulers? Perhaps. But most of the European rulers were horrible too. And at least the Ottomans for centuries were a model of tolerance, something we can't say about most of the Europeans that weren't even tolerant among christians themselves (see protestants and catholics, ever heard of the St. Bartholomew's Day massacre?)

Edited 3/30/2016 16:49:43

I've noticed a common theme with these "Christianity is just as bad as Islam arguments"

The people who make the claim always have to resort to bringing up events that happened hundreds of years ago. They always fail at bringing up any relevant modern examples on the same scale.

The Crusaders were over 500 years ago.
The Inquisition was also over 500 years ago.
ISIS is happening right now.

Angry, give us some modern examples of Christians killing on an equivalent scale, stop trying to use ancient history to prove your arguments.

Edited 3/30/2016 16:53:24

lel I give up so now trial and execution are the same? That's like saying America kills millions because they go on trial. What a joke. And the Spanish killings in SA are not the Inquisition. I think it is you who needs to learn more, not me.

You did not yet, although if people like Ted Cruz or Trump are elected it will end up in a similar way sadly for you.

Really? Cruz's principles are very close to our original leaders. They didn't fuck it up, why would he? Trump I am not sure about. He is an unknown quantity.

Even if you go with 10000 for the Inquisition death count,ISIS has 20000 combat deaths alone in just 2014.
https://www.rt.com/news/322529-global-terrorism-index-report/
Iraq suffered 9000 dead in 2014 from terrorism. One year, as many as the Inquisition in 500.
So ISIS is clearly more deadly in one year than the Inquisition in 500 years.

Edited 3/30/2016 16:57:41

lel I give up so now trial and execution are the same? That's like saying America kills millions because they go on trial. What a joke. And the Spanish killings in SA are not the Inquisition. I think it is you who needs to learn more, not me.

If we talk about trials and executions, tell me how many people did ISIS sentence to death? (not talking about war casualities but people sentenced to death) If you want to compare lets compare it well.

Really? Cruz's principles are very close to our original leaders. They didn't fuck it up, why would he? Trump I am not sure about. He is an unknown quantity.

Again your opinion no objectivity at all.

Even if you go with 10000 for the Inquisition death count,ISIS has 20000 combat deaths alone in just 2014.

"combat deaths alone" yes, but what about those sentenced to death, the comparison was about it not people dead in combats or wars. Because if we start with comparing people dead due to wars and combats under Spain, the death toll would be much higher (natives+moriscos or muslim and jewish spaniards slaughtered without mercy).

Iraq suffered 9000 dead in 2014 from terrorism. One year, more than Inquisition in 500.

Again you are talking about people only sentenced to death, not massacres and wars during the Inquisition.

And about Christianity, as I told you there were fratricide wars between protestants and catholics that caused millions of deaths, in the place I am currently living, villages were wiped out and churches burned, you have still many testimonies of this period since most of these churches were never rebuilt, and these Churches weren't destroyed by Muslims but by Christians. Again you are living in America, so most of the history and violence caused by wars of religion (here Christianity alone) are unknown to you.

@Eklipse {TJC}



Bush, Obama, Clinton, Blair, Leopold II,...

All of the above are christians, they've all contributed for the deaths of millions. Did you know that Hitler was also a christian?

History and the present are full of christians killing people in greater scale then ISIS.



@GeneralPE

You americans are too much followers of your ancient leaders. You can't take a leader of 2 centuries ago and ask him to rule the country today, his valours are outdated to the advance of society.

God, France had great leaders too, but it's not like we'd want Louis XIV, Robespierre or Napoleon to rule our country today.

Edited 3/30/2016 17:15:47

Eklipse, did you just read my whole paragraph I made about millions of people killed during the 20th century by people of Christian heritage (not Muslim ones), and the genocide against Jews in Germany was not only racial (since the Jewish race does not exist) but at the beginning mainly motivated by religious hatred and intolerance towards them.

Terrorism is a tactic of extremists within each religion, and withn secular religions of Marxism or nationalism. No religion, including Islam, preaches indiscriminate violence against innocents.

PE and Eklipse, it takes a peculiar sort of blindness to see Christians of European heritage as “nice” and Muslims and inherently violent, human beings are human beings and the species is too young and too interconnected to have differentiated much from group to group. People resort to violence out of ambition or grievance, and the more powerful they are, the more violence they seem to commit...

I said that ISIS killed more than the Inquisition.
I am not talking about people killed during the Inquisition.
I am talking about people killed by the Inquisition vs killed by ISIS.

Everything you said about "trial deaths" is irrelevant. At least the Inquisition had the civility to use trials, rather than just beheading on a whim. I cannot see your point.


I know of the Thirty Years War, the French Huguenot conflicts. I am not a stereotypical American - somehow, it is okay to stereotype us, but to stereotype a Muslim is the pinnacle of racism.

Again your opinion no objectivity at all.

What was not objective? Cruz believes (or at least says he believes) in the Constitution. How is that not like our first presidents?

God, France had great leaders too, but it's not like we'd want Louis XIV, Robespierre or Napoleon to rule our country today.

Are you counting Robespierre as a great leader? If so, WHAT? Also, if you guys don't want Napoleon, I'll be glad to take him off your hands...

Edited 3/30/2016 17:22:08

GeneralPE, there's a big difference between trials and "trials". Inquisition trials were often over and the suspect guilty since the beginning. Westerners that were beheaded by ISIS also went trough "trials".

A text created 200 years ago shouldn't be blindly followed, just like the Bible or the Quran shouldn't. If you don't manage to adapt yourself, you're just constantly living your past over and over.


=Answer EDIT=

Napoleon was a great leader, but also a butcher, and as much as I admire him, I don't forget that. And yea, Robespierre was a great leader, dispite being a butcher himself too.

Edited 3/30/2016 17:25:06

Inquisition trials were often over and the suspect guilty since the beginning.

Yes, but since only 5k died from 150000 trials, it was hardly an instant death sentence.

EDIT:

Napoleon was a great leader, but also a butcher

He wasn't too bad. Yeah, he caused wars which caused a lot of deaths, but in terms of cruelty he was pretty average for the age

Edited 3/30/2016 17:31:32

Cruz's principles are very close to our original leaders

Aye, and your original leaders had slaves. While your leaders had slaves, us Scots were trying to set ourselves free! English bastards.

+1 Islam
-1 Christianity
+1 Socialism
+1 Independence
-1 Republicans
+1 Sturgeon
+1 Corbyn
+1 Sanders
-1 Capitalism
+1 Tolerance
-1 Hypocrisy
+1 Napoléon (really good leader to be honest; he was incredibly tolerant for a dictator)
+1 Scotland
+1 Wallace & Bruce
-1 America
-1 Bush/Blair war criminals
+1 Marx
-1 Cruz
-1 Trump
-1 Scottish labour twats
+1 UK Labour cool guys

American founders did fuck up America; they created it

America and its citizens are intolerant

Go Scotland

Alba gu brath

Even England is better than America

Edited 3/30/2016 17:50:43

American founders did fuck up America; they created it

If it weren't for us, Ox, you'd be speaking German. You lot couldn't even beat England, much less the Krauts.

If it weren't for us, Ox, you'd be speaking German.

Classic American. Then they ask us why we stereotype them.

Are you saying I'm wrong?

+1000 Okabe

Speaking German is the BEST part about being ruled by Nazis. And plus, The USSR saved our sorry arses, not USA.

The USSR couldn't do shit without US supplies. And while they did a lot, Britain was fucked without the US

and yes, We definitely could beat England.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bannockburn



We destroyed those arseholes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wars_of_Scottish_Independence

Pretty successful here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_the_Bruce

Good lad.

I could link more than Wikipedia if you wanted me to, but here all this stuff is common knowledge. We destroyed the English in every battle we've had with them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Falkirk

Edited 3/30/2016 18:24:26