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Was the American Revolution a failure?: 4/11/2016 04:55:02


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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The goal of the American Revolution: Let's make the smallest, weakest, decentralized government ever so it cannot effectively impose it's will upon others.

A little bit later: George Washington is murdering farmers for not paying protection money

Later: The government is landing in North Africa killing pirates and giving the finger to the Turkish Sultan

Later: The government is invading Canada and burning down British government buildings there

Later: The government is tricking another government into war so it can absorb half of it's land and keep it a divided mess

Later: Two tyrants are fighting each other and both of them are pretty bad, with one marginally better because he doesn't support chattel slavery

Later: The government is killing folk and commiting genocide and awful atrocities

And finally: The government uses a accident in a ship illegally parked in another government's port to declare war on said government, grab a chain of islands while tricking folk there into supporting them (then murdering them for being mad) and to get a weak puppet government in another island, and to just keep another island

So, can I ask something. Has the American Revolution failed, based on just the happenings of about a century after it?
Was the American Revolution a failure?: 4/11/2016 04:58:50


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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The government is tricking another government into war so it can absorb half of it's land and keep it a divided mess


Which one was that? I recognised most things on here, the Barbary Wars, the 1812to1815 American-British war, the American Civil War, but what was this (in the 1800s)?
Was the American Revolution a failure?: 4/11/2016 05:00:30


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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Mexican-American war
Was the American Revolution a failure?: 4/11/2016 05:59:17


Castle Bravo
Level 55
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The American revolution was one of the most successful political revolutions in history. Revolutions like the French Revolution and the Bolshevik revolution succeeded in overthrowing the old rulers but replaced them with equally terrible or worse people.

The American revolution was a huge success. It created an independent nation, which was the stated intent of the declaration of independence. It created a thriving nation that benefited the lives of its citizens.
Was the American Revolution a failure?: 4/11/2016 06:08:34


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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Revolutions like the French Revolution and the Bolshevik revolution succeeded in overthrowing the old rulers but replaced them with equally terrible or worse people.

I can say with complete confidence, that Obama is worse than King George.


It created a thriving nation that benefited the lives of it's citizens

Except you're completely missing the point of the foundation of the government. It's supposed to be a weak non-centralized government so it's folk could get along with their lives. It was supposed to keep Americans and America out of foreign entanglements and it has completely failed in that regard (Barbary Wars and the War of the Sixth Coalition). They were fighting against heavy taxes and draconian attacks on civil liberties and the government they created was supposed to not stomp on these. And guess what the US does now? It goes into other places, locks down countries under martial law and cuts the freedom of folk even more than the governments it defeated.
Was the American Revolution a failure?: 4/11/2016 06:48:19


TeamGuns 
Level 58
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The problem on the american revolution is that no one accounted for the human factor, as no one ever does. It's easy to setup a few goals of liberty in a day and override them in a decade.

In the case of the US, the problem was the idea of "Manifest Destiny".

Government is as bad as those who control it. A good government with sane ppl at it's command can work well for the people, and improve live standarts aka modern nordish countries.


My philosophy when it comes to government is:

Government must do the following:
- Protect the people with a good justice, police force and a non-interventionist army as small as possible.
- Offer a good free education and offer healthcare to it's citizens paid by a fund where every citizen and company contributes
- Liberty and equality of threatement for the citizens.

You'll probably disagree with some of the above with me, but those are necessary for a good working society, and cheaper then you'd expect.


What government MUST NOT do:
- Restrict any citizen's liberty that does not enter in conflict with any other's liberty. Aka murder is illegal, but gay mariage isn't.
- Have any huge spy agency like the great powers do today, with those having the sole goal of detecting potential great threats for the nation, with any deviation from this goal being severely punished. 100% Safety isn't any good if to atain it you need to spy every citizen in your country and torture people.
- Make foreign imperialist interventions.
- Run on budget deficit. Government shouldn't be like a teenager wallet, no one must be a specialist to understand that you shouldn't end every year for decades in the red and that is a shitty idea. As well as being a bad example for society, it should be a crime to leave the debt problem to our grandchildren to solve. Government should always aim surpluses in order to form a reserve in case of need, those must be caped at 1% of the PIB max though. As the money that would go for debt service isnt needed anymore, lower taxes.
- Any other thing that enters in conflict with the first part, shouldn't be done either.
Was the American Revolution a failure?: 4/11/2016 07:18:51


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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What the perfect government is: Nothing.

Governments are all naturally violent, are engaged in organized theft of folks' money ,and will never be good in their intentions.
Was the American Revolution a failure?: 4/11/2016 21:08:58


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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What the perfect government is: Nothing.

Governments are all naturally violent, are engaged in organized theft of folks' money ,and will never be good in their intentions.


That is true, and governments are only violent syndicate stewardships, ruled by selfish folk. But it's not government that's the problem, it's the selfish folk who are, it's selfishness itself. Gangs and cartels are no better than governments.
Was the American Revolution a failure?: 4/11/2016 21:39:18


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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As long as a government enforces it's will upon folk en masse without their permission, it is bad. I however see no problem with a government that gives perks and benefits to folk who explicitly state they want to be apart of a certain program while not robbing other's of their wealth violently and through coercion.

Also no Panda, just because someone has three thingies and another has ten thingies, it does not mean you get to take two thingies from the first person, seven from the second and give one back to the first.
Was the American Revolution a failure?: 4/11/2016 22:02:01


OxTheAutist 
Level 58
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Yes, it was. The end result involved a free American state, which is a failure on many levels.
Was the American Revolution a failure?: 4/11/2016 22:05:12


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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Quit the hate speech
Was the American Revolution a failure?: 4/11/2016 22:27:08


Genghis 
Level 52
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Well according to hobbes, I'd say it's very important to have a strong central government. After all, the city will always defeat the state so why does it matter?
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