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The Zionist Strangle on British Politics: 5/5/2016 12:03:57


[WL] Colonel Harthacanute
Level 50
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Yes, I know this is a tricky subject, but that's why I'm talking about it. Hopefully we'll get an argument or three out of this.

Just to make it clear before you start screaming "Arab", I am British. I also happen to be Muslim. I've lived in Britain my whole life. My parents, grandparents and great grandparents also lived in Britain for the entirety of their lives. I am ethnically Scottish from a Presbyterian-dominated highland clan.

Beefore I begin with the story which has been captivating the headlines in British politics recently, let's just look at a quick fact. The percentage of British Muslims is 8%. Jews are 0.1%. So democracy is on our side.

Now that that's all cleared up, here's what happened... a female MP for the largest opposition party in Britain, The Labour Party, made up of centre-left MPs and lead by a radical leftist (that's another story), recently hit the headlines for statements a journalist discovered on her Twitter which she made prior to being elected to Parliament. In the Tweet, she mentioned that she supports a proposal to end the Israel-Palestine conflict by relocating the Zionist population of the region to the United States of America - a preposterous proposition considering most of the present population of Zionists in the Palestine region were born there, and they're descended from Germans and Russians - and the MP was promptly suspended from the party on charges of anti-Semitism.

Then, during the media frenzy following the story, a number of radical leftist Socialist MPs, including the former MP, now candidate for the Mayoralty of London, Mr George Galloway, and the former Mayor of London, member of the Labour National Executive Committee, Mr Ken Livingstone, came out supporting the MP. Galloway is a prominent critic of Zionist apartheid and his statements came as little surprise, however Ken, as an NEC member, had his statement jumped upon by the Zionist lobby, Labour Friends of Israel, who accused him of Antisemitism for no apparent reason, and Ken was suspended from his party.

This throws up a few questions:
*Why does the Zionist lobby have such a hard grip on British politics?
*Why are they so afraid of critique of Israel?
*Why do they not make a distinction between Judaism and Zionism?
*How is there not any viable opposition to this fascist behaviour especially since the Jewish population of Britain is so minute and irrelevant?
*If Ken's behaviour is Antisemitism, isn't opposition to him Islamophobia?

Feel free to comment. Just don't be a d**k.
The Zionist Strangle on British Politics: 5/5/2016 12:11:31


Darth Darth Binks
Level 56
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Does it have anything to do with the statement of wanting to move the Zionist (Jewish) population to the United States? Just like Palestinians, The Levant is a sacred place to Jews.
The Zionist Strangle on British Politics: 5/5/2016 12:29:42


Angry Koala
Level 57
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Are we back in 1933? Long live Über Britländer Fürher!


More seriously, Colonel, what a brainwashed person you are, see by yourself, one simple example contradicting your biased views on it: one of the most powerful man in Great Britain will be a Muslim guy, soon to be Mayor of London. If the "Zionists" you mentioned were controlling everything as you say, do you really believe he would be democratically elected?

Edited 5/5/2016 12:33:19
The Zionist Strangle on British Politics: 5/5/2016 12:43:08


The Lord
Level 52
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This is the mentality of a lot of 'moderate Muslims', I'm afraid. They make preposterous, hateful demands, and if they get criticized for it, they claim islamophobia. Islamic culture is a problem that needs to get solved.

To the original question. It doesn't matter if Britain has more Muslims than Jews. By the same logic, we should enact everything the BNP demands as there are more Christians than Muslims in GB.
The Zionist Strangle on British Politics: 5/5/2016 13:26:36


TeamGuns 
Level 58
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This is the mentality of a lot of 'moderate Muslims', I'm afraid. They make preposterous, hateful demands, and if they get criticized for it, they claim islamophobia. Islamic culture is a problem that needs to get solved.


I'm not a Muslim, but I'm 100% confident you're beeing islamophobic here.


About the Jews thingy, it is true that the Israeli state has problems, but deporting every jew to America isn't a good solution for the problem. One can argue that we can solve the problem of Israel by deporting every palestinian to Saudi Arabia.

Will it work? Probably. Is it a good, moral and human solution? No. The only right solution is the creation of 2 states and the end of institutional segregation against muslims in Israel.


Even though again, I'm not a jew, I think the labour party's comments are anti-judaism and a serious error made from a leftist party. But I think we can enter this in the line of the big problem the bipartisan system creates: as the conservatives defend Israel's interests, the labour party will defend palestinian's interests. And extremists might appear in any subject and any party: maybe tomorrow a conservative MP will defend the deportation of muslims to the middle east as a solution to terrorism in the UK, who knows?
The Zionist Strangle on British Politics: 5/5/2016 13:44:05


The Lord
Level 52
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I'm not a Muslim, but I'm 100% confident you're beeing islamophobic here.

Islamophobia is such a buzzword today that I honestly don't know whether to agree with you or not. If criticizing Islam makes one an islamophobe, then I guess I am one. If criticizing Crooked Hillary makes me sexist, then I guess I am one.
The Zionist Strangle on British Politics: 5/5/2016 13:45:21


GeneralPE
Level 56
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Zionist apartheid

Lost all respect for you at this point.

he only right solution is the creation of 2 states and the end of institutional segregation against muslims in Israel.

The Palestinians are the ones against a two-state solution. They (not all, but many, especially those in power) believe Israeli's are apes and pigs, and do not believe the state should exist. Furthermore, "institutional segregation" is bullshit. Muslims have all the rights of Jews except for being required to serve. There are Arabs in Parliament. Israel is not an apartheid state. Period.

*Why are they so afraid of critique of Israel?

It isn't critique they're afraid of here; it's hatred and a desire to repopulate an entire people.

*Why does the Zionist lobby have such a hard grip on British politics?

Much like the imaginary "Patriarchy", there are no Zionists secretly conniving to rule the world. Just because they are a minority doesn't mean they can't be respected and protected. Also, I'm sure that the .1% or whatever number you gave of Jews have far more than .1% of the nations wealth and income. Si it makes sense they are included in the conversation.

*Why do they not make a distinction between Judaism and Zionism?

They do; no matter what you say, deporting millions of Jews is not just anti-Zionist; it is anti-Semitic.

*How is there not any viable opposition to this fascist behaviour especially since the Jewish population of Britain is so minute and irrelevant?

Calling a wealthy and active part of society irrelevant is pretty harsh. Anyway, I'm not great on my history of fascism, but I'm pretty sure it was the Nazi's who wanted to deport the Jews. And again, just because it is a minority doesn't mean no one cares about their rights.

*If Ken's behaviour is Antisemitism, isn't opposition to him Islamophobia?

I assume this Ken chap is Muslim. To answer your question - no, opposition to a Muslim is not Islamophobia. Saying Palestinian nationalists need to be deported would be Islamophobia. No one did that as far as I know, so stfu. This is like saying people are racist for despising/arguing with Obama.

Edited 5/5/2016 13:45:30
The Zionist Strangle on British Politics: 5/5/2016 13:47:48


TeamGuns 
Level 58
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Criticizing Islam doesn't make you an islamophobe, I criticize all the time christianity and it's not like I'm being christianophobic. But saying stuff like: "Islamic culture is a problem that needs to get solved." is islamophobic.

Criticizing Hillary doesn't make one sexist. Saying she shouldn't assume the presidency because she's a woman is. Plus that woman is terrible, if you don't criticize her, you probably have no brains at all. PS: the same applies to Trump.


===================

Edit for PE's comment:

The Israeli segragation of muslims is real. And although it's right you can't really say it's like the South African apartheid, the state might lean to that direction soon enough. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_the_apartheid_analogy

For the palestinians not wanting the 2 states solution, it's not really real. Ppl will always want as much as possible in a negociation, but the average palestinian would accept a 2 states solution; also not all leaders think Israel shouldn't exist. Anyways, a pre-requisite for the creation of the state of palestine will of course be a mutual recognition of the states. And again, it's not like creating the palestinian state will destroy Israel's military force, in case of new invasions Israel can always push back and get a full occidental support like it did on the previous defensive wars.

Edited 5/5/2016 13:54:04
The Zionist Strangle on British Politics: 5/5/2016 13:59:36


GeneralPE
Level 56
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The average Palestinian may want a two state, but the leaders are what matters. Most hate Israel and want it wiped from the face of this Earth. The analogy to older Israeli-Arab wars is not applicable, since it would be state terrorism, not true war. It would give terrorists a haven, and the only way to take that away is to invade, and then the problem is back again.
The Zionist Strangle on British Politics: 5/5/2016 14:02:53


The Lord
Level 52
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But saying stuff like: "Islamic culture is a problem that needs to get solved." is islamophobic.

But it's a true statement. I already showed statistics of Muslim homophobia. OP clearly doesn't appreciate Jews' human rights much, and I doubt he came to that conclusion all by himself. Rather, he has listened to an Islamic scholar.

And since you mentioned GOP rednecks some time ago. I don't support racists and homophobes regardless of religion. But the KKK and Westboro Baptist Church don't get support from anywhere. Nobody likes them. They don't have any power. Islamist hate preachers have lots of power because of progressive pro-multiculture enablers who say that we need to tolerate Islamic culture and its barbarism to avoid being islamophobic.
The Zionist Strangle on British Politics: 5/5/2016 14:28:56


TeamGuns 
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The analogy to older Israeli-Arab wars is not applicable, since it would be state terrorism, not true war. It would give terrorists a haven, and the only way to take that away is to invade, and then the problem is back again.


Terrorists already have a haven in gaza and liban. Making a second state would take away a lot of their purpose of existance; plus they'd lose the population support, the only factor that makes them able to still exist despite Israel's efforts to get rid of them. In fact, everytime they try the situation gets worse.


@The Lord

For me I see christians and muslims views on each other the same way. A problem that isn't cultural or just because of religion, but for bad acts of minorities. Muslim terrorists will kill christians, and western leaders will bomb the middle east. But both are a result of non-understanding of the situation and the failure to see both sides of the coin like you don't. You think that Islam is the problem and you forget that christianity has a big responsability on this shit too.


For the extremists, we clearly have a problem when it comes to lawmakers. They are weak and won't do what needs to be done, but that's pretty much true for every controversial field. To be honest to you, if I were on their place I'd just jail everyone.

KKK member? Jailed for racism.
WBS member? Jailed for homophobia.
Muslim extremist preacher? Jailed for hatred speech.
Christian extremist preacher? Jailed for hatred speech.

The liberty of one ends when their actions have consequences that end's another's freedom.
The Zionist Strangle on British Politics: 5/5/2016 14:35:30


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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Stop being a tyrant, dumb arse KKK members have done jackarse lately. Most extremist preachers have done little too. You have no right to police folks' minds.
The Zionist Strangle on British Politics: 5/5/2016 14:43:18


Pulsey
Level 56
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Islamophobia!!! Islamophobia everywhere!!! Stop!!!


To be honest to you, if I were on their place I'd just jail everyone.


If Teamguns had his way, we'd all be jailed for being racist, homophobic, sexist, misogynistic bigots long ago. Anything that doesn't agree with his far left agenda will immediately be 'hatred speech'.

Edited 5/5/2016 14:51:41
The Zionist Strangle on British Politics: 5/5/2016 14:44:58


The Lord
Level 52
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You keep mentioning that the West bombed / bombs the Middle East and that this is causing all the terrorism and violence in Paris, Brussels etc. There is some point to that and Bush was a disaster, but for the most part, it has nothing to do with it. Take for instance Islamic homophobia. Why do Muslims hate gays so much? Do they think that GWB was gay? No. They hate gays because hatred of gays is an integral part of Islamic culture. Either Muslims need to change that or Trump needs to do something radical and effective.
The Zionist Strangle on British Politics: 5/5/2016 14:45:47


TeamGuns 
Level 58
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Most extremist preachers have done little too. You have no right to police folks' minds.


I disagree, extremist preachers are the ones responsible for radicalization in europe.

Edited 5/5/2016 14:45:55
The Zionist Strangle on British Politics: 5/5/2016 14:47:38


Pulsey
Level 56
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I disagree, extremist preachers are the ones responsible for radicalization in europe.


Ah yes, all those far right extremist preachers. Never mind all those terrorists attacks in Europe! They are actually peaceful! Why would anyone feel radicalized when hundreds of people are killed? Outrageous bigotry!

People have no right to stand up for their own country and national security against terrorism! If you do so you are an extremist preacher!

And you should be jailed!

Edited 5/5/2016 14:51:03
The Zionist Strangle on British Politics: 5/5/2016 14:58:39


[WL] Colonel Harthacanute
Level 50
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one of the most powerful man in Great Britain will be a Muslim guy, soon to be Mayor of London.


I'm referring to their control over politicians through their lobby. I didn't say they had control over the electorate.

Also, there are already Muslim persons in a much more powerful position than the Mayor of London. And in my view he won't win. I support Zac Goldsmith as the better pick.

This is the mentality of a lot of 'moderate Muslims', I'm afraid. They make preposterous, hateful demands, and if they get criticized for it, they claim islamophobia. Islamic culture is a problem that needs to get solved.

To the original question. It doesn't matter if Britain has more Muslims than Jews. By the same logic, we should enact everything the BNP demands as there are more Christians than Muslims in GB.


Religion is not culture. Arab Muslims have a completely different culture from Iranian Muslims or Indonesian Muslims.

Also, to apply the views of a fringe party which doesn't even legally exist anymore to the majority is a completely illogical analogy. And to compare them to religious community is a tragedy of the intellect.

Islamophobia is such a buzzword today that I honestly don't know whether to agree with you or not. If criticizing Islam makes one an islamophobe, then I guess I am one. If criticizing Crooked Hillary makes me sexist, then I guess I am one.


Well, what's the difference between Islamaphobia and Antisemitism? Why didn't you react the same way to my use of both words? I smell the repugnant odour of indoctrination through misinformation emanating from your post.

The Palestinians are the ones against a two-state solution. They (not all, but many, especially those in power) believe Israeli's are apes and pigs, and do not believe the state should exist. Furthermore, "institutional segregation" is bullshit. Muslims have all the rights of Jews except for being required to serve. There are Arabs in Parliament. Israel is not an apartheid state. Period.


I'm not talking about Palestine or any solutions. I believe that the Palestinian Authority is under pressure from extremist and terrorist elements such as Hamas, which do not represent the vast majority of the opinions of the general populace.

How can you believe that Palestinians believe that Israelis are apes and pigs?? Don't be so ignorant. Most Palestinians simply want peace and the same basic rights as Israelis.

They do; no matter what you say, deporting millions of Jews is not just anti-Zionist; it is anti-Semitic.


I agree with this statements. What are you trying to prove?

I assume this Ken chap is Muslim. To answer your question - no, opposition to a Muslim is not Islamophobia. Saying Palestinian nationalists need to be deported would be Islamophobia. No one did that as far as I know, so stfu. This is like saying people are racist for despising/arguing with Obama.


1. No he isn't Muslim. As mind-blowing as it may be to you, not every person who cares about the plight of the Palestinian people is Muslim.
2. Criticising a state's policy towards it's neigbours should not come at the cost of one's political career. Nor should it be a shameful thing to talk about. Think Turkey.
3. Nobody said Jews need deporting anywhere.

Criticizing Islam doesn't make you an islamophobe, I criticize all the time christianity and it's not like I'm being christianophobic. But saying stuff like: "Islamic culture is a problem that needs to get solved." is islamophobic.


In the same manner that Antisemitism is fear/hatred of Jews rather than Judaism, then Islamophobia is fear/hatred of Muslims rather than Islam.

And since you mentioned GOP rednecks some time ago. I don't support racists and homophobes regardless of religion. But the KKK and Westboro Baptist Church don't get support from anywhere. Nobody likes them. They don't have any power. Islamist hate preachers have lots of power because of progressive pro-multiculture enablers who say that we need to tolerate Islamic culture and its barbarism to avoid being islamophobic.


It's not that they're necessarily more popular. They just make good headlines. Who wants to read news about boring moderate preachers and ministers?
The Zionist Strangle on British Politics: 5/5/2016 15:02:15


[WL] Colonel Harthacanute
Level 50
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extremist preachers are the ones responsible for radicalization in europe


Very true. But it's the governments' fault because they didn't control or regulate all the immigrants to integrate them properly when they came. Now they're the poorest in European societies and turn to extremism to fuel their anger at the state.
The Zionist Strangle on British Politics: 5/5/2016 15:15:16


The Lord
Level 52
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It's not that they're necessarily more popular. They just make good headlines. Who wants to read news about boring moderate preachers and ministers?


Fine, but the moderate majority should make their voices heard that they don't want the extremists anywhere near them. They could name and shame them if necessary. Also they should make it heard that they don't support treating Islamists with kid gloves to avoid being called racists.

I re-read your first post and I am a bit confused. Do you propose deporting/relocating all Jews from Israel or only Zionists? Also, you kind of hinted that the proposal is bad but then you said that it's islamophobia to criticize its proponents.

Religion is not culture. Arab Muslims have a completely different culture from Iranian Muslims or Indonesian Muslims.

They all hate / have a strong dislike for gays. Why? Shouldn't something be done about it?
The Zionist Strangle on British Politics: 5/5/2016 15:36:14


Angry Frog
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At the start you talked about Labour in a bad way. I'm guessing you're a Tory supporter ?
The Zionist Strangle on British Politics: 5/5/2016 17:44:10


kynte
Level 51
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Islamic culture is a problem that needs to get solved.


Ja! Ve needz a final zolution to za Izlam problem!
The Zionist Strangle on British Politics: 5/5/2016 18:19:42


[WL] Colonel Harthacanute
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I re-read your first post and I am a bit confused. Do you propose deporting/relocating all Jews from Israel or only Zionists? Also, you kind of hinted that the proposal is bad but then you said that it's islamophobia to criticize its proponents.


I do not support the forced deportation/relocation of any Jews from Israel/Palestine, even Zionists. I am trying to point out that the Zionist lobby in Britain is trying to control British politicians even though they make up less than 0.1% of the population.
I was using the word Islamophobia to check the use of the word Antisemitism. Unfortunately the point I was trying to make was proven correct by the reaction to my use of the word.
I pointed out that if criticising the actions of the State of Israel in Palestine is Antisemitism, then criticising the critics of Zionism may as well be called Islamophobic.
This pointed out the blatant bias of most people.
The Zionist Strangle on British Politics: 5/5/2016 21:52:28


Von Jewburg
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As an American Jew, I say this:

I want a 2-state solution. Both peoples have equal claim to that land. Pushing one group completely out of the way is unacceptable, regardless of Israeli or Palestinian.

But the problem is that the borders of those two nations would be a nightmare. And similarly to the partition of India and Pakistan, certain people will be "on the wrong side of the border", and people will be forced to leave. And some will die as they try to leave.

But, the Palestinian region of Gaza has not shown its itself to be a reliable, stable nation which is willing to work with its neighbor Israel. Gaza has launched rockets, Israel has bombed possible terrorist targets. Both side says they are doing the right thing, and thousands are dead on both sides.

I think that Jews deserve a state in Palestine as much as the Palestinians do. Deporting one group out will not work.

Now as an American, I can't say much on the political issues brought up in the starting post. But let me tell you this:
I'm fine if you critique Israel. Both sides have done terrible things.
Saying Israelis have no right to have their own state is the same as me saying such for Palestinians.

In the US, we have Jews like me who are willing to do a 2-state solution, Jews who are a bit more moderate, and Jews like the ones mentioned in your first post.
The Zionist Strangle on British Politics: 5/5/2016 21:53:17


Von Jewburg
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By the way, I did not know you were a Muslim, Cardwell.
The Zionist Strangle on British Politics: 5/5/2016 21:59:55


knyte 
Level 58
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And similarly to the partition of India and Pakistan, certain people will be "on the wrong side of the border", and people will be forced to leave. And some will die as they try to leave.


That doesn't really make a big difference; the region already has a massive refugee crisis.

But, the Palestinian region of Gaza has not shown its itself to be a reliable, stable nation which is willing to work with its neighbor Israel.


Yep. Literally under Hamas control right now. Obviously, it's a positive feedback loop because of the situation Gaza's in, but that also makes the safest move for Israel to just carry on their current program.


You also can't just analyze the current situation without considering the history since 1947.
The Zionist Strangle on British Politics: 5/5/2016 22:40:15


adrian waco
Level 25
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there shouldnt be a two state solution

only a one state solution

after all the jews need more land to live in

palestinians had their shot for a deal

now there is no time for mercy

why show mercy to terrorists?

Edited 5/5/2016 22:40:40
The Zionist Strangle on British Politics: 5/6/2016 06:36:24


The Lord
Level 52
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Ja! Ve needz a final zolution to za Izlam problem!

You sound just like that Jew-hating hothead Knyte. It's almost as if you were the same person.


I do not support the forced deportation/relocation of any Jews from Israel/Palestine, even Zionists. I am trying to point out that the Zionist lobby in Britain is trying to control British politicians even though they make up less than 0.1% of the population.

You have yet to prove that Zionists control the media. Firing people who propose mass deportations of innocent civilians is only normal in Western democracies, no need to bring up islamophobia. And if this Ken chap isn't a Muslim, how is firing him an example of islamophobia?


I was using the word Islamophobia to check the use of the word Antisemitism. Unfortunately the point I was trying to make was proven correct by the reaction to my use of the word.

Criticism of Islam is not islamophobia per se. But if someone says that we should deport all Jews from Israel against their will, then there is a good chance that the person is an anti-Semite.


I pointed out that if criticising the actions of the State of Israel in Palestine is Antisemitism, then criticising the critics of Zionism may as well be called Islamophobic.

Criticizing the state of Israel is not anti-Semitism ofc. But forcible removal of Jews or even Zionists that have not demonstrably committed crimes is hateful or indifferent towards Jews.
The Zionist Strangle on British Politics: 5/6/2016 06:39:32


kynte
Level 51
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Never thought I'd say this, but +1 The Lord
The Zionist Strangle on British Politics: 5/6/2016 07:23:08


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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Just a note here, you go on talking, but anti-semite is one of the most wrongly wielded words in English. Semitic folk is a group of folk that holds within it mostly Arabs, and some Israelites. There are Jews who are not Semitic, and there are Semites who are not Jews (in truth, the great majority of them aren't, they're Muslim and Christian).

If you mean anti-Jew or anti-Israel, just say so.
The Zionist Strangle on British Politics: 5/6/2016 07:28:33


knyte 
Level 58
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Linguistics doesn't follow predictable etymological patterns. We regularly encounter words like "inflammable" tha don't mean what you think they'd mean if you dissect them.

Historically, the word "anti-Semitic" has been used to specifically indicate opposition to Jews. It's not "wrongly wielded"- it just doesn't follow the etymological patterns you're trying to impose.
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