I never suggested FDR was perfect.
I said great and non-revolutionary and in the Americas.
He obviously had some flaws, but from my standpoint, his actions far outweighed his flaws.

His actions: Economic policies lengthened the Great Depression, caused WW2 inadvertently, started concentration camps, and started welfare. Not a single good there.

I disagree Smedly, as you probably already know. I however have a very grudging liking of FDR. I think he caused about as much crap as he saved and definitely doesn't deserve to be the liberal progressive figurehead.

We've already argued that increased the great depression thing, and I still hold my stance that as a fan of Keynesian economics, his policies were correct. How did he cause WW2 inadvertenly? lets see opposed supplying resources for Japanese expansion, and opposed German and Italian expansion, lets be honest, the aggressor parties started the wars, while his opposition to providing resources may have provoked the war, they certainly didn't create them. The concentration camps I agree is a massive flaw on his resume, and trust me, I spent probably 60-75 hours of my life researching that due to me being a japanese-American. Started welfare, well I view that as a good thing, as it avoids making people starve, and I don't give me any of that it makes people non-competitive BS(then why are the Nordic countries kicking our collective *sses in terms of living standard, crime rate, and other factors?). He also established social security, which avoids old people dying from starvation, which I view as a positive step, and created the minimum wage, which limited exploitation of workers. He also raised taxes on the rich, which weakened their influence on society, and helped to balance it. During the war, he in fact froze wages to save the economy from a worker shortage.

Civ V is best Civ.

Heresy.

We all know Civ IV is superior.

Civ V best Civ.

He started the war by keeping trade tariffs up high, causing a tariff war to go on throughout the world making warfare more viable for states.

Started welfare, well I view that as a good thing, as it avoids making people starve, and I don't give me any of that it makes people non-competitive BS(then why are the Nordic countries kicking our collective *sses in terms of living standard, crime rate, and other factors?)

One, it does make folk less competitive and makes less folk work. Two, Scandanavia is behind the US in living standards.

He also established social security, which avoids old people dying from starvation, which I view as a positive step, and created the minimum wage, which limited exploitation of workers

Social Security is the government promising folk money it doesn't have, and it is still immoral as all taxation is immoral.

Workers aren't exploited unless they're being forced to work. If you don't want to work for three dollars an hour, you can leave or try to talk it out with the owner of the factory, but putting a gun to his head and forcing him to do something means he is the one being exploited, not you.


He also raised taxes on the rich, which weakened their influence on society, and helped to balance it.

I'd rather have someone who made their money peacefully like a rich person have more influence in society than a warlord like FDR.

During the war, he in fact froze wages to save the economy from a worker shortage.

A war he effectively started.

USA has a higher living standard than Scandinavia? Source? Smedley you americacentrist.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index

https://www.aei.org/publication/if-sweden-left-the-eu-and-joined-the-us-it-would-be-the-poorest-u-s-state-below-even-mississippi/

http://www.haaretz.com/study-discovers-swedes-are-less-well-off-than-the-poorest-americans-1.46084

Stop crying Americancentrist, it's unbecoming, even for a socialist.

Smh gopnik goyyim

Anyone denying the Nordic countries have some of the best living settings in the world, particularly Iceland...c'mon. And on the other hand of the spectron, though, you've got loads of folk denying that Qatar and Bahrain are good lands to live in as well - they are just as well.

I think there was a poll done in several countries, on what was the worst problem in their country. For America, it was crime and foreign attacks. For Britain, the EU. For Sweden, it was that the country was very boring.

If I could go anywhere and live there as a denizen, it would definitely be Iceland.

Edited 6/7/2016 07:00:13

Smedley, quality of life is different then purchasing power.

Purchasing power doesn't count up living standards well enough. Human Development Index does that better. And secondly , you only show us Sweden, not the other Scandinavian countries like Iceland,Denmark and Norway. The fact that Sweden has the lowest HDI of them all, made it for you very wise to compare that particular country with the US. Finally in that first newsarticle you showed me there's an update on that which counterclaims the article itself.

Also good joke you're thinking I'm a socialist. I laughed for a while. Bringing political insults to a thread that was destined to go about a game you'd get victory 1-0 with all the other off-topic forum users.

Smedley you politic centrist!

Well let's see what the poor in America have:

80 percent of poor households have air conditioning. In 1970, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.
92 percent of poor households have a microwave.
Nearly three-fourths have a car or truck, and 31 percent have two or more cars or trucks.
Nearly two-thirds have cable or satellite TV.
Two-thirds have at least one DVD player, and 70 percent have a VCR.
Half have a personal computer, and one in seven have two or more computers.
More than half of poor families with children have a video game system, such as an Xbox or PlayStation.
43 percent have Internet access.
One-third have a wide-screen plasma or LCD TV.
One-fourth have a digital video recorder system, such as a TiVo.

So what about hunger? Poor folk must be going hungry right?

96 percent of poor parents stated that their children were never hungry at any time during the year because they could not afford food.
83 percent of poor families reported having enough food to eat.
82 percent of poor adults reported never being hungry at any time in the prior year due to lack of money for food.

Well they must live in slums, at least, right?

Over the course of a year, 4 percent of poor persons become temporarily homeless.
Only 9.5 percent of the poor live in mobile homes or trailers, 49.5 percent live in separate single-family houses or townhouses, and 40 percent live in apartments.
42 percent of poor households actually own their own homes.
Only 6 percent of poor households are overcrowded. More than two-thirds have more than two rooms per person.
The average poor American has more living space than the typical non-poor person in Sweden, France, or the United Kingdom.
The vast majority of the homes or apartments of the poor are in good repair.

So since Americans aren't really poor, why would a vastly greatened welfare state help? Maybe it'll make America richer! Oh wait, Sweden dropped from being the fourth richest to being the twelfth richest. Well maybe it will help the middle class! Oh wait the high taxes have been crushing the Swedish middle class.

Also, I'll call you what I want to call you, commie.

Edited 6/7/2016 18:37:07

Fair enough Americacentrist.

I'm still reminding you that you are only criticizing Sweden and not the other Scandinavian countries like Norway, Denmark and Iceland.

Edited 6/7/2016 18:44:04

communism? ew

Also, Belgium is a freakish country, is it Dutch or is it French? Exactly, you don't know and neither do I. I'm pretty sure the government has given up on installing nationalism into the population, no one cares about Belguim, not even it's own freak Flemish and Wallonian folk.

I'm laughing even harder. You're identifying me as a nationalist now without me ever have expressed political opinions. (aside from a thread in which I claimed to be anti-nationalist)

O my good. I swear if you're going to call me an anarchist after this I'll die.

oh and by the way.. Americacentrist ;)

Edited 6/7/2016 18:50:37