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Defend workers and tax robots!: 6/9/2016 02:55:18


Paugers
Level 41
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So the amount of robots in our factories and emerging in our food production and other business is worrying to me. I propose that we charge a business a 10% tax on every product produced by a robotic staff (cars, shirts, etc) to encourage hiring humans and improving unemployment.
Defend workers and tax robots!: 6/9/2016 03:36:24


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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I'd just shut down operations in the US at that point.
Defend workers and tax robots!: 6/9/2016 03:41:16


TeamGuns 
Level 58
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You dirty socialist! Giving these communist ideas!!!! Go to cuba paugers!
Defend workers and tax robots!: 6/9/2016 03:43:23


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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^

Paugers and the rest of the alt-right-wingers should admit that they're national socialists at this point.
Defend workers and tax robots!: 6/9/2016 03:44:56


Paugers
Level 41
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I like national socialism (minus racism and anti-semitism).
Defend workers and tax robots!: 6/9/2016 03:57:33


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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Robots and technologic advances have never, in the economic history of all time, everywhere, greatened unemployment. Most economists agree that this won't. So what's the problem with robots?

Edited 6/9/2016 03:57:45
Defend workers and tax robots!: 6/9/2016 04:02:57


Paugers
Level 41
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Um, the eradication of the American middle class should be a minor problem. It may not mess with jobs if this is true but it will surely change the American industrial landscape and force men and women to adopt different lifestyles that they are and should not have to be used to.

Any job is a good job but it's the job of the government to uphold worker's rights and ensure they enjoy what they do or at least have a position to do something they can. Robots are going to minimize people's capability to do things they wish, we see this in Japan where there are already robot hotels and America where restraints are taking advantage of new kiosk technology to eliminate waiters. These sort of creations are inhuman and need to be taken out of our society.
Defend workers and tax robots!: 6/9/2016 04:15:46

[wolf]japan77
Level 57
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My suggested solution to this: pay people to make sure the bots don't go haywire( the poor). Middle class then becomes the people who can code and those that manage the people checking robots, once they are high enough up the ladder. The Rich are per usual those whom own the means of production. This would raise the standard of living as people move up the ranks, and robots take over the lowest paying jobs. In fact, taxing people for using robots is stupid, you would literally shut down the entire automobile industry in the US, so congrats, you doomed all of Detroit for good in one blow rather than allowing the exodus to continue at a reasonable rate.

Edited 6/9/2016 04:18:05
Defend workers and tax robots!: 6/9/2016 04:17:04


Paugers
Level 41
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300 million Americans and you think there are enough too give jobs to everyone with robots stealing them? Plus it's unnatural, I want my food served by a human please.
Defend workers and tax robots!: 6/9/2016 04:18:55

[wolf]japan77
Level 57
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And that's why we introduce a basic income for those unlucky to get a job, and have them do random gov't work like what happened under FDR.
Defend workers and tax robots!: 6/9/2016 04:21:04


Paugers
Level 41
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Or we could put a tax similar to carbon taxes on businesses using them, create more FDR based public work to lower the unemployment even more and place trade tariffs on nations that lack similar taxes to ours, we are the largest economy after all.
Defend workers and tax robots!: 6/9/2016 04:21:05


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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Um, the eradication of the American middle class should be a minor problem

Yeah, you know why they're getting beaten out of work? You folk, who chase industrial jobs out of the US.

Any job is a good job but it's the job of the government to uphold worker's rights and ensure they enjoy what they do or at least have a position to do something they can.

This automation is targeted at folk who are on minimum wage. The amount of folk on minimum wage is about one million. That's less than one percent of the population. Furthermore, this automation is because of you increasing labor costs.

These sort of creations are inhuman and need to be taken out of our society.

So are computers, which most of these things are, so stop being hypocritical and get off the computer.
Defend workers and tax robots!: 6/9/2016 04:24:13

[wolf]japan77
Level 57
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Or we could put a tax similar to carbon taxes on businesses using them, create more FDR based public work to lower the unemployment even more and place trade tariffs on nations that lack similar taxes to ours, we are the largest economy after all.
And what good would this accomplish, robots are more precise that we humans can hope to be, get the jobs done faster, and out produce us at a ridiculous rate. Congrats, you just F*cked over the global economy due to the 3rd(Japan) and 4th(Germany) largest economies having large amounts of autonomous work, along with Detroit.
Defend workers and tax robots!: 6/9/2016 04:26:30


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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and place trade tariffs on nations that lack similar taxes to ours, we are the largest economy after all.

So you're going to place tariffs on the entire world, and you still think you will retain economic power? Hah, China thanks you for going more communist than it ever was.
Defend workers and tax robots!: 6/9/2016 04:36:55


Zephyrum 
Level 60
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Are you willing to show up to work 24/7 without lunch or bathroom breaks and never sleeping?

If not, you're not cost efficient, therefore you're a bad choice for the higher ups.

~

Are you ever rude to someone or susceptible to mistakes leading to customer issues?

If yes, you're not providing maximized customer service, therefore you're a bad choice for any customer.

~

Both the customer AND your boss - the two people financing you - want a robot for your spot. Therefore, a robot shall have your goddamn spot. I would not like having to pay 1000 R$ monthly when I can use a robot whose maintenance costs roughly 500 bucks, and every 2 or 3 months, worst case scenario. Nor would I want my sandwich to be given wrongly because a the clerk wasn't paying the attention he should. Nor would I want to, with the little bit of me that isn't socially awkward, have to handle an impolite and rude clerk.

There is zero excuse not to use robots. Saying robots cause unemployment is the same thing as saying modern machines that make cars, your toothpaste, most of the stuff you eat and much more are a bad thing. So, how about a protest? For the end of robot world domination?

*Stop using any sort of vehicles;
*That includes bicycles and skates;
*Stop using any sort of clothing that isn't made by hand;
*Stop wearing hats;
*Never eat fast-food;
*Heck, never eat anything that you didn't farm yourself;
*Stop using toothpaste;
*Leave your computer. And throw it off the window.

and place trade tariffs on nations that lack similar taxes to ours, we are the largest economy after all.


You won't be for long if you do that. Exactly this kind of shit that caused all those regional blocs to pop up and reduce all nations' dependence on the USA and the EU.

Edited 6/9/2016 04:39:48
Defend workers and tax robots!: 6/9/2016 04:51:52


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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the eradication of the American middle class should be a minor problem. It may not mess with jobs if this is true but it will surely change the American industrial landscape and force men and women to adopt different lifestyles that they are and should not have to be used to.


There's not really any grounds why it would end it. Middle classes are made and wrecked from overall economic policy: leftism makes middle class, while rightism looks more like an exponential equation (on an income disparity graph). This would neither significantly grow or lower the Middle Class. The American middle class, I believe, dates back from Roosevelt's "Keynesianism".

it's the job of the government to uphold worker's rights


That's pretty far down the "rights" list, if you mean what I think you do. If you support the government interfering with free market to make sure that folk get comfy jobs, then you should by all means be for free education and faffing healthcare. To make sure folk are healthy, and to make sure they can learn and become a researcher/developper is below making sure all folk get cushy jobs?

Don't snort caffeine like japan77 does.

Middle class then becomes the people who can code


Coding isn't really a continous process - you've finished, now you don't really need to code again. Even if folk purposely coded it so that the programme would break with not much use, how many jobs do you think this would give? Not many.

300 million Americans and you think there are enough too give jobs to everyone with robots stealing them?


More like 150 million Americans who have/are looking for a job. And it's already pretty low unemployment even with robots in industries such as automobiles. And no major technologic strides in all the past have resulted in any significant unemployment rate changes, and this one isn't forecasted to, either. In Germany and Britain 1840s, there were many who feared the same things you did and so went up smashing factories and machines, but it ultimately didn't change much, and their fears were unfounded. Then in Russia in the 1890s and then in America in the 1970s, big movements grew that were against modernity, and what they saw as forgetting what life was all about.

Edited 6/9/2016 04:53:24
Defend workers and tax robots!: 6/9/2016 04:56:52

[wolf]japan77
Level 57
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Coding isn't really a continous process - you've finished, now you don't really need to code again. Even if folk purposely coded it so that the programme would break with not much use, how many jobs do you think this would give? Not many.
And so I laugh. BLS expects CIS, which is the sector of the economy that contains mostly programmers to grow at a 12%, and wages are high, clear evidence of middle class.
http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/home.htm
Also, People are still calling for more programmers. https://www.maketecheasier.com/zuckerberg-and-gates-we-need-more-programmers/
Defend workers and tax robots!: 6/9/2016 04:58:32

[wolf]japan77
Level 57
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Don't snort caffeine like japan77 does.
I actually can't do that, it would kill me or at the very least give me a massive migraine due to me having a genetic condition that gave me early migraines(From age 2), that get triggered by just about anything, and make my life very unpleasant.
Defend workers and tax robots!: 6/9/2016 05:08:55


Zephyrum 
Level 60
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To snort caffeine, in Juqese, means to code. :P
Defend workers and tax robots!: 6/9/2016 05:38:05


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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And so I laugh. BLS expects CIS, which is the sector of the economy that contains mostly programmers to grow at a 12%, and wages are high, clear evidence of middle class.


That's programming things that constantly need to be improved, but how much programming updating do you need to know to make a robot arm do one task over and over again? Businesses like Microsoft and Elbrus, they're constantly crafting new software, but a factory doesn't need to update robots whose only job is to do one thing.

I actually can't do that, it would kill me or at the very least give me a massive migraine due to me having a genetic condition that gave me early migraines(From age 2), that get triggered by just about anything, and make my life very unpleasant.


/j

Folk who have no life and so play about on their computer all day, otherwise known as software engineers...do they need chemistry? Noooo...except to get some psychedelic grub, for creativity. C'mon, we all know that Fizzer and knyte jam heavy on the psilocin (C12H16N2O) and mescaline (C11H17NO3), separating the wheat from the chaff, here, from less successful programmers who snort the legal stuff like caffeine, such as Muli. And that's some pretty "restricted" stuff worldwide, so they need to know how to make this stuff, through some pretty shifty do-it-yourself chemical experiments. But anyhow, real engineers also need to know their chemistry pretty well, though. They need to know what stuff to use, and how it will deal with other stuff, and in order to know that, you need to know all about stuff, which is chemistry.
Defend workers and tax robots!: 6/9/2016 05:45:30

[wolf]japan77
Level 57
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Loled at your chemistry joke, I totally missed that reference. I do some lightweight coding, but I'm not crazy good or anything, it does help having two parents who also code, but I still haven't gotten my coding called actual coding.

That's programming things that constantly need to be improved, but how much programming updating do you need to know to make a robot arm do one task over and over again? Businesses like Microsoft and Elbrus, they're constantly crafting new software, but a factory doesn't need to update robots whose only job is to do one thing.
Valid point, but just considering how rapidly the tech sector is expanding, odds are you are going to stay in demand and get payed well for quite a while from now. Also, even basic code can have bugs that need to get fixed, and occasionally, the company is going to need to replace those robots, and odds are the coding used on them formerly is going to be out of date due to increasing precision of the robots due to improving technology, which means it probably only creates a couple thousand or so jobs, but that's still pretty important.
Defend workers and tax robots!: 6/9/2016 05:56:33


Genghis 
Level 52
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Not to mention, most people think they're special bugs so many try and go to college when right now we need people who are skilled tradesmen.
Defend workers and tax robots!: 6/9/2016 06:08:33


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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odds are you are going to stay in demand and get payed well for quite a while from now.


Best case scenario: there's some economic bubble until the market gets saturated.

creates a couple thousand or so jobs


Precisely, it's not but a drop in the big drawing. Repairing things that are rarely needed to be repaired in the first stead (except if the machines are getting replaced, which is rare also, and usually avoided unless it's really worth it).
Defend workers and tax robots!: 6/9/2016 06:33:08

[wolf]japan77
Level 57
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Best case scenario: there's some economic bubble until the market gets saturated.
That's actually the interesting thing about the tech sector from an Economists standpoint, they have been claiming they don't have enough programmers since my grandfather's generation(born 1933), who went from a math major into CS as they needed people. Basically this bubble has been around for atleast 7 decades.
Defend workers and tax robots!: 6/9/2016 07:14:23


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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I'm not talking about computer science in general, just coding for these machines that would "steal" jobs.
Defend workers and tax robots!: 6/9/2016 10:47:13


GeneralPE
Level 56
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Let people use robots, but since there are too many people, end immigration and let nature take its course inside the US (like Karl always suggests)
Defend workers and tax robots!: 6/9/2016 11:12:48


Eklipse {TJC}
Level 56
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A lot of people here seem ignorant of the eventual danger, and are missing the actual point by a mile. Will you be fine with robots serving your food? Flying your planes? Driving your car? Performing your surgery?

Machines should be tools to assist man, not replace him. If a pilot has a flight computer that helps run calculations faster or what not, that's fine. But when the computer does everything without human oversight, that's a huge problem.

Not to mention that having robots do these increasingly advanced jobs require increasingly advanced intelligence. There's a risk we could create a supercomputer that's on equal level or greater with humans within this very century. Ever heard of the Singularity? Yeah, go ahead and laugh at the Sci-Fi concept, but it's becoming more possible every day. Humanity is on course to advance itself straight into destruction, because we just don't know when it's time to stop.

Go ahead and call me a Luddite, but there should be a limit of what we let technology do for us. Some robots are good, but there can be too much of anything.
Defend workers and tax robots!: 6/9/2016 11:21:16


Zephyrum 
Level 60
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With my life on the stake, Id rather have a precise machine doing the surgery anyday...
Defend workers and tax robots!: 6/9/2016 12:09:04


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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Yes, I think that is a threat, but a pretty small one. It's not like humans, with all their breeding powers, made apes that are smarter than humans, or 20 metre tall gorillas. Not even in radioactive zones. Frankly, I think you're overestimating the threat. Just since we built a few Warlight AIs doesn't mean we're training them to take over the world.

Humanity is on course to advance itself straight into destruction, because we just don't know when it's time to stop.


Frankly, the bad thing right now is CO2 smog. It kills, and even far more deadlier, CO.

Edited 6/9/2016 12:11:42
Defend workers and tax robots!: 6/9/2016 12:29:23


Paugers
Level 41
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When we have people with their heads being chopped off in the Middle East and American veterans literally on the streets, I doubt CO2 is the worst of our worries.
Posts 1 - 30 of 38   1  2  Next >>   

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