Snappyvote was used to get an initial rank. [20]'s top 20 (from the last Snappyvote) and 4 other [20] members (with over 1000 games played) voted. Votes of 1-5 counted. It's a Bayesian average (with a real average Zibik21 would likely have 4.8+).

Details on league play [here](http://wiki.warlight.net/index.php/20).

A LEAGUE

1. Zibik21 4.09 11. Lollipop Guild 3.56
2. Myhandisonfire 4.05 11. Lobstrosity 3.56
3. Yuanshuai 3.99 13. Unknownsoldier 3.55
4. Chump Interpellation 3.92 14. Ruthless 3.52
5. Saladin 3.82 15. Flyfisher 3.51
6. Denzyman 3.8 16. Szeweningin 3.48
7. Eitz 3.7 16. Fatih Sultan Mehmed 3.48
8. Bytjie 3.64 18. Sakelar 3.42
9. Blue Precision 3.62 18. NuckLuck 3.42
10. Wini 3.57 20. Mike 3.38

B LEAGUE

21. Azazel 3.36 31. Geeksada 3.04
22. BishesUpInErr 3.27 32. Lil Eitz 3.04
23. BumbleBee 3.23 33. Ken Hai 3.04
24. Mosquitero 3.22 34. 怪叔叔 (Guai Shushu) 3.02
25. Aquaholic 3.18 35. Window Cleaner 3.0
26. Warpig 3.15 35. Czajnik 3.0
27. Ragingpikey 3.14 37. Supersaiyan 3.0
28. EZPickens 3.13 38. Falcrum 3.0
29. Rayguns 3.11 39. Mathwolf 2.97
30. Dr. Awesome 3.04 40. Dionysus 2.96

C LEAGUE

41. Agranulocytosis 2.96 51. Soyrice 2.76
42. Ye Olde English 2.96 52. Dariush 2.73
43. Sweetness69 2.96 53. Luke the Gravedigger 2.59
43. Ret 2.96 54. Peter 2.52
45. Laoda 2.96 55. Ace Windu (joined later)
46. Mega 2.93 56-60. ?????
47. Rupio 2.87
48. Montpelliercacraint 2.82
49. Mohikanin 2.77
49. Marcovian 2.77

We are still looking for 5 new good players to start league play. Basic criteria to join [20]:

- 1v1s: 65%+ winner (or consistent 1750+ rating on 1v1 ladder)
- 2v2s/3v3s: 65%+ winner (or consistent 1650+ rating on 2v2 ladder)
- For players who joined in October 2011 or later: subtract about 10% from your stats (bc your stats are inflated) to see if you still meet this basic criteria.

It looked fine in the original...The preview option on this forum is worthless...

A LEAGUE

1. Zibik21 4.09
2. Myhandisonfire 4.05
3. Yuanshuai 3.99
4. Chump Interpellation 3.92
5. Saladin 3.82
6. Denzyman 3.8
7. Eitz 3.7
8. Bytjie 3.64
9. Blue Precision 3.62
10. Wini 3.57
11. Lollipop Guild 3.56
11. Lobstrosity 3.56
13. Unknownsoldier 3.55
14. Ruthless 3.52
15. Flyfisher 3.51
16. Szeweningin 3.48
16. Fatih Sultan Mehmed 3.48
18. Sakelar 3.42
18. NuckLuck 3.42
20. Mike 3.38

B LEAGUE

21. Azazel 3.36
22. BishesUpInErr 3.27
23. BumbleBee 3.23
24. Mosquitero 3.22
25. Aquaholic 3.18
26. Warpig 3.15
27. Ragingpikey 3.14
28. EZPickens 3.13
29. Rayguns 3.11
30. Dr. Awesome 3.04
31. Geeksada 3.04
32. Lil Eitz 3.04
33. Ken Hai 3.04
34. 怪叔叔 (Guai Shushu) 3.02
35. Window Cleaner 3.0
35. Czajnik 3.0
37. Supersaiyan 3.0
38. Falcrum 3.0
39. Mathwolf 2.97
40. Dionysus 2.96

C LEAGUE

51. Agranulocytosis 2.96
52. Ye Olde English 2.96
53. Sweetness69 2.96
54. Ret 2.96
55. Laoda 2.96
56. Mega 2.93
57. Rupio 2.87
58. Montpelliercacraint 2.82
59. Mohikanin 2.77
59. Marcovian 2.77
51. Soyrice 2.76
52. Dariush 2.73
53. Luke the Gravedigger 2.59
54. Peter 2.52
55. Ace Windu (joined later)
56-60. ?????

We are still looking for 5 new good players to start league play. Basic criteria to join [20]:

* 1v1s: 65%+ winner (or consistent 1750+ rating on 1v1 ladder)
* 2v2s/3v3s: 65%+ winner (or consistent 1650+ rating on 2v2 ladder)
* For players who joined in October 2011 or later: subtract about 10% from your stats (bc your stats are inflated) to see if you still meet this basic criteria.

Details on league play [here](http://wiki.warlight.net/index.php/20).

6 1v1 RRs (2 per league), 3 2v2 RRs (1 per league) and 3 3v3 RRs (1 per league) will be created as soon as [20] has 60 members.

I wouldnt mind joining pot c if i qualify

My stats 322 ranked games 200 wins, 1v1 232 games 149 wins(64%, 3v3 68 games played 46 wins(68%). So far I am 2 out of 3 on 2v2 but I just joined the ladder so it should improve soon.

Consistent 1400-1450 rating on the ladder but 65% in 1v1s: a good example of the post-October inflated stats problem. When WL had more veterans than rookies, a near 70% 1v1 winning percentage meant more. Now that there are more rookies than veterans (or seemingly so), someone who wins 70% vs fellow rookies is equivalent to someone who used to win 40%. I only win almost 70% of my 1v1s. I played about 600. About 300 games were against the best players. By not playing those 300 games and instead playing 300 games against rookies, maybe my 1v1 stats would be 90%+! Oh how fearsome my stats would look! lol

Get to and stay above 1750 on the 1v1 ladder for as long as you are on the 1v1 ladder and we'd be glad to have you in one of our leagues. In the meantime, keep trying to get better.

Moley, are you sure? Joining means you have to play games against some of the best players. I'd hate to be the reason why your handsome stats became more realistic.

Maybe you could join as your first account?

If I qualify, you can add me to the bottom division if the spaces haven't been taken up already :)

ah, old man Yuan's railing against the newcomers - like me he joined near the start of the year - 8 months makes us oldtimers :)

Yuan, do you know why Fizzer hasn't implemented general rating(s) eg Truescore? would resolve all these "who's better?" discussions. maybe if he displayed ratings for members, he'd boost the site's income also - people might join to see/show what their rating was.

I'm curious... care to explain this Truescore system for a 'newbie'?

And yes, I realize my stats are inflated (73% of 156 1v1, 100% of 16 2 v 2) but I am not one to search out easy wins, merely prefer the auto-games and thus play against others who prefer them.

a basic rating is an obvious answer to many things. my guess as to why it's not done: fizzer still thinks the exclusivity of getting a rating on the ladders is a good incentive for attracting people to become members; to implement a rating system now for all games might be messy (what to do with the tens of thousands of games lacking a rating?); maybe fizzer just doesn't think it would add any excitement or increase our interest.

chewie's in. moley could be, still waiting to see if he wants to keep his immaculate stats or join under his first account.

apologies, name is TrueSkill http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trueskill
- it is similar to the ELO-type ranking used on the ladder, and for chess, etc. BUT it allows games vs multiple opponents AND team games with teammates of different rating.
this would allow 1 rating across all game-types.

all players would have to have a rating, BUT if Fizzer set it so only members were told their rating, that might be a big plus in favour of buying membership, no?

i join this league. and yunshai, you dead

its not necessarily that yuan considers a veteran to be someone whos been on here longer than two months. i think the point hes making is that since the great noob influx of 2011, as historians are already terming it, those raw win % stats will be watered down. so its even less reliable as evidence for entry, as shown by the discrepancy between ladder ranking and win % for newer players.

Afaik, the reason fizzer hasn't implemented rating systems is because of the difficulty of catagorizing the rating modifications of each and every setting modification in a game..
the ladders are controlled environments.. when you see someone with a 2050 in 1v1 ladder, you know that rating is on the map in that setting
chess has consistent rules from game to game, so ELO works perfectly for it.. but how would you have fizzer define are the rules adequate for the rating to take effect for general games?

Perrin - check out the TrueSkill page i linked to, it can give a rating in these cases.
now, you're right, it will be an 'overall' rating, but is what we are wanting, no?

also, sure it wont be perfect - maybe people play only on maps that suit them, to get better rating, etc. but it would be a good evaluation of overall warlight strength.

I'll join if there's any more space left and I'm deemed fit enough. :P I don't have too good stats but that's mostly because of all the 1 v 1s and massive games I played when I first joined (Them's were the days). But like I said, if you think I'm good enough, definitely count me in.

The problem with rankings is that some people have used the same profile since the day they joined, and those first 300 or 400 games of 1v1 against the best players they could find deflate the stats. I'd love to see Fizzer add an option where you could select the time period of stats. Something like "last 6 months, last 6 weeks, etc..."

That would give a better reading of someone's current skillset.

Madtown... implement a system similar to that of the ladder and have the ranking only consider games played over the past X months.

Ouch Yanshuai - no need for the personal attack. I only put my name forward.