State sponsorship of the flag implies agreement with the bigotry and racism it stands for.

Did you not read my first two points? The United States in it's existence has been guilty of the same exact bigotry and racism that people align with the Confederate flag. But yet there's no outcry to ban the U.S flag. It's hypocrisy. Everyone wants to blame problems on a dead country and then turn a blind eye to the past of existing ones.

If the Confederate flag represents bigotry and racism than so does the American flag. Heck, nearly every flag in the world is representative of hate if we're going to use this kind of historical grudge based logic.

Edited 6/19/2015 02:57:01

On a fundamental level, I agree with your point. It's part of freedom of expression.

But the confederacy seceded because of slavery. A lot of sympathizers will tell you it was states' rights, but one of those rights was the right to decide whether or not slavery could be legal. So no matter what, it's always going to be seen as a symbol of the racism associated with that area in that time period.

Either way, it's one thing for a private citizen to hang a Confederate flag on their wall or on top of their car. But then you have South Carolina, which became one of the richest states BECAUSE of the slave trade, flying it on their state capitol. Pretty big slap in the face to a lot of people that have had to fight so hard and are still oppressed to this day.

So as a government, you have to ask yourself if this is really the symbol you want on display outside of the building where you're supposed to be making laws to improve the lives of your state's citizens.

And this is all aside from the fact that their state is now at the center of discussion because of an act of terrorism involving a shooter who flew the flags of apartheid on his jacket.

Did you not read my first two points? The United States in it's existence has been guilty of the same exact bigotry and racism that people align with the Confederate flag. But yet there's no outcry to ban the U.S flag. It's hypocrisy. Everyone wants to blame problems on a dead country and then turn a blind eye to the past of existing ones.

If the Confederate flag represents bigotry and racism than so does the American flag. Heck, nearly every flag in the world is representative of hate if we're going to use this kind of historical grudge based logic.

Well, the Confederacy, as I understand: Legal slavery 100% of its existence, in a time in which slavery was already fading out in half the world. America, slavery 50%? of its existence.

Don't start an argument over with Juq over what flags are offensive. You'll end up running each other in circles.

Another objection to the flag is that it was literally the flag of traitors to the USA...

Add to that the fact that it's largely flown by people who claim that they are the most patriotic of Americans, and that liberals hate America. That seems a touch hypocritical to me...

Another objection to the flag is that it was literally the flag of traitors to the USA

The current state flags of all former CSA members fall under this category as well, but again, no outcry there. Every single reason that's been given to label the Confederate flag as "racist" or "offensive" also applies to the national flag and a good chunk of the state flags.

But it's easier for people to just lump all the blame into one source.

I don't think they should be flown. The flag is a message of rebellion. It should not fly in public areas unless historically. If that is too hard, just have Mississippi change their state flag to exclude the Confederate flag portion of the canton.

Symbols acquire meanings based on their use. The Confederacy wasn't the only group to use the Confederate Flag. Drive around Texas sometime and the people who use the Confederate Flag usually use it as a protest against the federal power of the goverment, usually the power to override and block state-level prejudice.

As you pointed out, lots of flags have been flown by people who did bad things. I suppose one poor comparison would be between how a Mississippi-born African-American (with a family background of slavery) perceives the Confederate Battle Flag and how I, someone whose country was colonized and later split into three by the British, would perceive the British flag.

However, most people who fly the British flag do so outside the context of imperialism. When people fly the British flag, they do it with the intent to either mark something as British, take pride in British history (without explicitly condoning imperialism), or appreciate modern British culture (James Bond, anyone?). Similarly, when someone flies the American or Russian flag, they're probably not doing so to condone the actions of the Jackson government or Putin's invasion of Georgia and Ukraine.

The reason the Confederate Battle Flag (not necessarily the Stars and Bars) is so controversial, however, is because it's flown with the message of:

- condoning the actions of the Confederacy
- perpetuating racism and the oppression of African-Americans
- supporting unlawful behavior by a state in violation of the 14th Amendment

These were by and large the majority of post-Civil War uses of the Confederate Flag. That's why it's acquired that message, just like the Flag of the Third Reich is associated with racism and fascism, because that's what it's used to represent.

Flags, like words, are symbols that acquire meanings based on their usage. When people say "fuck you," they're sending a specific message that we're only able to understand because we've come to associate that specific combination of sounds or letters with the message itself. Similarly, when people fly the Confederate Battle Flag, the American flag, or the Soviet flag, it's a form of communication that sends a message acquired based on context and usage.

A telling example of this is how the Stars and Bars (the actual flag of the Confederacy) doesn't have the same connotation as the Confederate Battle Flag- because the Stars and Bars isn't flown often enough to acquire a strong message, and is also flown in a greater variety of contexts. It's kind of like how the Rising Sun Flag has a different meaning in the American community than the actual flag of Imperial Japan.

Edited 6/21/2015 03:02:51

If that is too hard, just have Mississippi change their state flag to exclude the Confederate flag portion of the canton.

Good luck with that.

Agree with the people saying that some flags are worse. But you should be allowed to fly whatever flag you want, especially on Private property.

Only on private property.

I say ban it because I hate the fuckin Duke Boys and their lack of respect for law enforcement.

xD

what's to the left of Cletus's foot?

I believe Matt Groening's signature.

Looked like a tin foil top hat

I agree with knyte here. It should be banned on public property, simply because of the message(s) it represents. Maybe fly it on historical sites like Gettysburg and Antietam and Appomatox Court House, but at the South Carolina State Capitol Building, I say throw it into the sea.

Does this mean I get to fly my Nazi flag? I mean, I know they killed the jews, but that was ages ago, that's history man.

Why would you ban it? Under the American flag, Americans have done FAR worse things than the Confederates.

We NUKED two cities particulary targeting innocent civilians. The American flag ment a lot of racism and hatred to the Japanese people post WWll. Should the American flag be banned in America?

Or how about the Swedish invasion of Finland? A large portion of the population of Finland was wiped out by the Swedes when they invaded Finland in the middle ages. The Swedish flag is still hated in Finland and is seen as a sign of oppression. Should the Swedish flag be outlawed in Finland?

Or how about the German Invasions of France? French people were oppressed, put in slave camps, forced to work as slaves building defenses against a liberation, and some were simply put in the death camps all under the German flag. Should the German Flag be banned in France?

Or how about the Polish enslavement of the Lithuanian peasants? Should the Polish flag be banned in Lithuania?

The "pro-banning" argument utterly falls apart. If we banned all theses flags then we would have no place to have the Olympics because every state would have some grievance against another.

Everybody should have a god damned right to use any flag they want. All it is, after all is just a bunch of colors. Americans are way too damn sensitive. Americans just can't handle themselves if one minority group is offended or another is offended. Its bull shit. In Europe they all hate each other but at least have half a brain not to ban each others flags.

And here in here lies the problem. AMERICANS ARE SOME OF THE STUPIDEST PEOPLE TO EVER WALK THE EARTH!

So stop arguing about whether or not you might see a confederate flag on a court house and be offended because honestly if 200 years isn't enough time to forget about the atrocities that the south did then you need to learn how to forgive and forget. Simple as that.

It's hard to forgive and forget when you're still being discriminated.