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Posts 1 - 16 of 16   
A theological question: 2/26/2016 02:19:07


GeneralPE
Level 56
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Jesus told us to love our enemies like ourselves. But what about EMO/suicidal people? Are they allowed to hate their enemies? Please discuss
A theological question: 2/26/2016 02:22:25


Mister Kl
Level 55
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no, if you hate someone you are like hitler and the nazis
A theological question: 2/26/2016 02:23:06


Thomas 633
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A theological question: 2/26/2016 03:00:28


Lord Varys
Level 47
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Kl, that's just... rude... to compare emos to Nazis...
A theological question: 2/26/2016 22:47:49


Imperator
Level 53
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No, you're not allowed to hate anyone else. Period.

First John 3:15

15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.


And in fact, This part of the bible is not very kind to people who hate others. According to first john 3 and 4, if you hate another person you are:

a. A Murderer(Quoted passage above)

b. A liar

c. Someone who "Abideth in death"

d. A servant of the Devil

Edited 2/26/2016 22:48:15
A theological question: 2/26/2016 23:43:07


Von Jewburg
Level 35
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Judaism never really takes a stance on that. Most of that "love thy neighbor" was from the New Testament.
A theological question: 2/26/2016 23:44:31


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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Kill thy neighbour if he shall works on Sabbath day.

Edited 2/26/2016 23:45:03
A theological question: 2/27/2016 00:02:31


Darth Darth Binks
Level 56
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Well General, suicide is a big sin. So I'm gonna say no.
A theological question: 2/27/2016 03:05:00


[AOE] JaiBharat909
Level 56
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15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

How does this not apply to animals and all other life forms? That's the one theological part about Christianity that bugs me. Isn't the dog and the cow and the bee all brothers of man since we share the same Father that is God?
A theological question: 2/27/2016 15:21:39


Imperator
Level 53
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No. In Christian theology, Animals are thought of as inferior to humans, who are the living image of God.

Case in point: Genesis 1:26-28


26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
A theological question: 2/27/2016 15:35:25


[AOE] JaiBharat909
Level 56
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But what does "dominion" truly mean in a spiritual and theological sense? Dominion is the ability to impose our will. We do indeed rule over all animals, since we are the most powerful species on the planet. This however does not mean it is okay to abuse this power. God wants us to show mercy...not only to our fellow man, but to all creatures he's created.

Look at Romans 14:21 - "It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause any man to stumble."

Or Genesis 1:29 - "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food."

Or Genesis 1:30 - "And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food."

Or Luke 12:6 - "Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten in God’s sight."

I think there's a strong case to be made that God meant more to become of his creatures than to inflict death upon them to satiate our own bodily needs.

Edited 2/27/2016 15:36:12
A theological question: 2/27/2016 16:13:09


Imperator
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But what does "dominion" truly mean in a spiritual and theological sense? Dominion is the ability to impose our will. We do indeed rule over all animals, since we are the most powerful species on the planet. This however does not mean it is okay to abuse this power. God wants us to show mercy...not only to our fellow man, but to all creatures he's created.


The passage I quoted doesn't just reference "Dominion". It also mentions "Subduing". While this doesn't in itself seem to condone eating meat, Leviticus 11 has a ton of examples of God telling people that they can eat meat.

And in case you're wondering, Yes, Jesus did later say that it's okay to eat pigs and shrimp:

Mark 7:14-19

14 And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:

15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

17 And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.

18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?



Look at Romans 14:21 - "It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause any man to stumble."


You have quoted this verse extremely out of context. To be honest you should just go read all of Romans 14, but here are some other verses from it if you don't really want to:

3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.


14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.


20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.


Romans 14 is really about respecting other peoples dietary choices, and not about how horrible meat is.

The rest of the verses you've quoted don't really pertain to anything that I've said and aren't too relevant here.

Edited 2/27/2016 16:18:04
A theological question: 2/27/2016 16:39:34


[AOE] JaiBharat909
Level 56
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Genesis 1:29 and 1:30 are extremely relevant because they speak of the ideality of the relationship between God, Man, and Creature before the expulsion of Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden. God speaks to them and says that every beast and every creature will eat the seed-bearing plants that he has created for food. He doesn't qualify by saying that man and woman are exempt from this rule. Every creature God created, including man, must east the same seed-bearing plant.

I think your references to dominion and submission are references to the theological hierarchy that God envisioned and created: God, then man, then beast. But this hierarchy doesn't imply that man should eat every beast, because then the logical conclusion of this hierarchy is that God should dominate, subdue, destroy, kill, and eat men simply for biological subsistence.

The tenth commandment says "Thou shall not kill", however it doesn't qualify this statement with "Unless it is an animal". He means universally man should not kill, because if you kill God's creation you are killing God himself.

Edited 2/27/2016 16:40:49
A theological question: 2/27/2016 16:45:13


Darth Darth Binks
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^How do you explain the time God tells the Israelites that they can eat animals with hooved feet that chew their cud, and all birds except the birds of prey?

And why does Jesus multiply bread and FISH for the crowd?

Edited 2/27/2016 16:45:48
A theological question: 2/27/2016 16:52:45


[AOE] JaiBharat909
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Mhmm...clearly the argument has obvious loopholes and or flaws when trying to match it exactly with the events of the Old and New Testament.

I think there is a strong argument to be made for inherent Christian Vegetarianism within Scripture, but obviously its tough for me to argue with my limited Biblical knowledge on why Jesus permitted meat in certain occasions or advocated for it, in direct conflict with what God told Adam and Eve.

The example of Jesus multiplying Fish for the crowd may stem from the concept of Pescatarianism.
A theological question: 2/27/2016 17:05:34


Imperator
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No, all they say is that it's okay to eat plants. Any "ideality" of eating plants is speculative.

This is completely irrelevant since we're talking about meat, not plants; It is my understanding that neither of us are attempting to dispute whether it's okay to eat plants...

I think your references to dominion and submission are references to the theological hierarchy that God envisioned and created: God, then man, then beast. But this hierarchy doesn't imply that man should eat every beast, because then the logical conclusion of this hierarchy is that God should dominate, subdue, destroy, kill, and eat men simply for biological subsistence.


As I said, It certainly doesn't imply that humans should eat meat. However, passages such as Leviticus 11 certainly do.

The tenth commandment says "Thou shall not kill", however it doesn't qualify this statement with "Unless it is an animal". He means universally man should not kill, because if you kill God's creation you are killing God himself.


The ten commandments are only a very basic summary of the law. For everything, you can read about it in the first five books of the bible, which are rife with God commanding people to kill animals for one reason or another.

Exodus 12:5-6
5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year. You may take it from the sheep or from the goats. 6 Now you shall keep it until the fourteenth day of the same month. Then the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it at twilight.


Leviticus 1:5
5 He shall kill the bull before the Lord; and the priests, Aaron’s sons, shall bring the blood and sprinkle the blood all around on the altar that is by the door of the tabernacle of meeting.


You know, I'm not going to quote all of Leviticus. Just go and read the thing, since it's basically saying how to kill different types of animals in a way that God likes.
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