The question is: will she have to if Trump gets the nomination?

That's what I'm concerned about most of all. Not the fact that Hillary sounds like Bernie in the primary, but that Trump will give her the perfect excuse to continue sounding like Bernie in the general election. At that point...Republicans and Conservatives should get their passports ready.

Come on, Scooooootland!

Kill the racist homophobic fascist.

So, wanting a strong military, closed borders, small government and a flat tax makes someone fascist? Please tell me that was sarcasm. If not, half of histories govts have been fascist

Yes, in the past, fascism was much much more popular.

Fascism must be confirmed both in action and rhetoric. The case to call Farage or Trump fascists by rhetoric alone is by itself very dubious and on thin ice. Trump's previous positions and political affiliations should invalidate him as a candidate of fascism since he's held very progressive views on abortion and gay marriage. Less than 10 years ago he was a liberal Democrat and now you're saying he's a fascist. No person with that much power changes their ideology to this degree. He's a political opportunist and con-man. That's all. He's nowhere near the likes of Mussolini, Hitler, Franco, Tojo, Ante Pavelic, Philippe Petain, Ioannis Metaxes, Miklos Horthy, or Ion Antonescu.

Yes, someone else said he's a unaffiliated politic oppurtunist, that's why I said he is now* fascist. He's not commited to his ideology, but that doesn't mean he can't have an ideology. And frankly, I think he was always to the right to some degree, maybe I'm wrong there, though.

Neither Farage nor Trump have called for the death of non-enemy combatants and neither have shown radical genocidal tendencies. To elevate Farage and Trump to the evilness and hatred of the leaders I have mentioned does a great disservice and insult in my opinion to those who have died under Fascism's true banner.

Trump is for waging "total war" on Syria - killing the terrorists' friends and family. I mean, that's just f---ed up, I get that killing innocent civilians will happen anyway, but to make it official public government policy... Farage is borderline fascist, I said, he shows loads of things that are unfascist - he was against the war in Iraq and Syria. But he wants conscription back, and the death penalty back. And like I said, anyone can be a murderous atrocious genocidist leader, no matter what their party. Kingdoms, anarchists, republics, all these. And anyhow, frankly, I want to insult those under "Fascism's true banner", I'm no fan of Hitler, Tojo, or the Antonescu.

I know what would be easier. Provide a list of quotes from Farage and Trump that you think evidences a sufficient standard to label them Fascists. That would be the best way to debate this.

Or just tell you their policies that they have done, that would be the easier way.

Farage - We...should...kill...every...Romanian...in...Britain.
Trump - No...Muslim...is...a...good...Muslim.

The immigration problem I was talking about is both in law and in the people who apply the law. The law makes it easier for europeans to go to the us and get the green card, mostly because of the idea of reciprocity. Americans can go to europe easier then latinos as well.

Schengen site doesn't include America, don't know what you're talking about here (maybe you know something I don't).

But by your argument I can claim that Hillary and Bernie are "closer" to communism than are Trump and Farage which is an equally dangerous statement considering the millions slaughtered by Mao and Stalin in the name of communism.

Communism can be misapplied. Fascism can be misapplied. And now they're both half-insults since it.

Nationalism isn't all bad. Defending your culture and to be proud of your country isn't a thing I would condemn. But to defend the idea of kicking muslims out of the country for safety, defending more strengh when dealing with the chinese and say that america should be made great again, that's the worst kind of nationalism. It's national populism for real.

Nationalism is inherently xenophobic. It's awful and should under no settings encouraged.

- Do you think healthcare is way too expensive?
- Do you think rich people, who become rich because of your country stability and laws should pay more then you in taxes?
- Do you think it's wrong for rich kids to have better education and thus more opportunities just because they're rich?

If you say yes to all of these, you're not a socialist. You just have common sense.

Do not think healthcare is too expensive. Rich should pay more in taxes, but not unfairly more. I hear the phrase "flat tax" being misused often. Flat tax means that everyone pays 1000£, no matter how rich or poor you are. Progressive tax is paying tax by pourcentage of income. Socialist tax is paying tax by pourcentage, but make more pourcentage for the rich and less for the poor, since you being poor (and unable to get rich, unlike in capitalism) is what helps everyone the most. As for point #3, public schools, free private schools, scholarships (and in some communist countries, I hear they're needs-based, ugh) and the internet exist in every country. Not much (although I think some) help from the government is needed for poorer folk. I have uncommonly good sense.

Congress and the public wouldn't let him even if he wants to, which I doubt he will.

How many wars has America waged that have been obsessionally approved, something like 4 or 5? If he wants it done, it's getting done. He's president of America.

Is Bernie not a Democrat? Or is he just lying about being a socialist?

He says he is a Democratic Socialist - light socialism.

Trump isn't a republican either.

How do you think Trump is much different from the list of the Republicans?

Kill the racist homophobic fascist.

Isn't Farage for keeping gay marriage?

Edited 3/6/2016 22:37:39

Farage - We...should...kill...every...Romanian...in...Britain.
Trump - No...Muslim...is...a...good...Muslim.

I think the first one is a quite a stretch no? Especially since he never said anything like that. Farage is against Schengen, and thus the use of Schengen by poor unskilled European laborers to collect welfare benefits from UK taxpayers. I don't see how that's xenophobic or fringe-fascist. Every country has an inherent right to sovereignty and to defend their borders.

The second is an implied statement of course. I can't refute or confirm that though since Trump claims to have many muslim friends.

Isn't Farage for keeping gay marriage?

One of UKIP's MEP is openly gay.

One of UKIP's MEP is openly gay.

Which symbolises Farage's stupid irony.

Or maybe its just proof that Farage and UKIP are not the homophobic, xenophobic, racists that the British media makes them out to be...?

Frankly I think Farage's position are less concerned with British nationalism or supremacy. He's fully distanced himself from the BNP and completely disregards them as a legitimate political entity. Furthermore, he's refused to ally himself with the more far right-wing groups in the European Parliament, some of which have antisemitic tendencies. I'm speaking of course of the Europe of Nations and Freedom (ENF), which includes: Le Pen's Front National, Geert Wilder's Party for Freedom, Poland's Congress of the New Right, Heinz-Christian Strache's Freedom Party of Austria, or Matteo Salvini's Lega Nord.

@[AOE] JaiBharat909

European migrants contribute more to the british social system then they use for them. It's a 20 billion £ surplus in fact.

I think the first one is a quite a stretch no? Especially since he never said anything like that.

I thought ... repeated made it clear that it was not really something they said but could be quoted.

Farage is against Schengen, and thus the use of Schengen by poor unskilled European laborers to collect welfare benefits from UK taxpayers. I don't see how that's xenophobic or fringe-fascist.

Anti-immigration is a tenet of fascism. Anti-immigration alone won't make fascism but it is needed.

Every country has an inherent right to sovereignty and to defend their borders.

Second World War started out with Manchurians atrociously revolting against the Japanese workers, and in Europe, it started when Poland invaded Germany. Calm yourself, it's not defending your borders, at best, you can say shielding the economy a little.

The second is an implied statement of course. I can't refute or confirm that though since Trump claims to have many muslim friends.

I doubt Trump really hates Muslims, but he definitely draws a drawing like he does (while not being outwardly undeniably racist).

Frankly I think Farage's position are less concerned with British nationalism or supremacy. He's fully distanced himself from the BNP and completely disregards them as a legitimate political entity.

Yeah, he's not so much about shielding culture, which makes him borderline in my opinion.

Furthermore, he's refused to ally himself with the more far right-wing groups in the European Parliament, some of which have antisemitic tendencies. I'm speaking of course of the Europe of Nations and Freedom (ENF), which includes: Le Pen's Front National, Geert Wilder's Party for Freedom, Poland's Congress of the New Right, Heinz-Christian Strache's Freedom Party of Austria, or Matteo Salvini's Lega Nord.

He calls other parties Nazi parties, and begs Britain not to join Nazi Europe. Success.

à TeamGuns's picture:

Somebody's feelings got hurt, this is the best manifest you have of Trump being hurtful in everyday life? Folk get bullied, get over it, weakling.

European migrants contribute more to the british social system then they use for them. It's a 20 billion £ surplus in fact.

Link me bruh :)

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/05/eu-migrants-uk-gains-20bn-ucl-study

"Nationalism is inherently xenophobic. It's awful and should under no settings encouraged."
Wrong. There is nothing wrong with loving your country more than others. It encourages people to contribute more, and increases competition.

Also, to Teamguns: BLM is certainly authoritarian. I think they want hegemony, but that isn't the point. Look at this article: http://www.breitbart.com/education/2016/02/10/fake-blood-and-war-chants-milo-yiannopoulos-event-at-rutgers-disrupted-by-feminists-black-lives-matter-activists/
This is clearly an attempt to silence free speech. What more do you need to be authoritarian?

"Trump is for waging "total war" on Syria - killing the terrorists' friends and family. I mean, that's just f---ed up, I get that killing innocent civilians will happen anyway, but to make it official public government policy... "
What is wrong with this? It will save lives in the long run by ending the war quicker. At least they won't be beheaded by ISIS. Honestly, international law on war as caused more death than it prevents. I suggest reading the Verdict of Battle (Whitman) to understand how by trying to coddle civilians, we just drag out wars even longer, causing MORE deaths.

Also, about that 20 billion surplus thing: 1) 20 billion isn't that much tbh. Maybe in Britain. But not in the US. Anyway, it isn't worth it. Look at Rotherham. I would rather be 20 billion worse off than have shariah law in parts of Britain accepted as official. Maybe you wouldn't, but that is just me.

ISLAM IS CANCER FOR THE WEST! I have nothing against individual Muslims, but the teachings of Islam are so contrary to all Western ideals. Not all are terrorists, it is true, but many not only do nothing to stop them, but support terrorism.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/12/16/geller-do-muslims-around-the-world-really-hate-the-united-states-yes/
The "moderate" Muslims only want to impose their woman-oppressing ideology through mass immigration and 4 wives x 4 kids each, until they have enough people to simply vote in Shariah law (see: Dearbornistan, Michigan; Rotherham.)

Edited 3/7/2016 00:31:28

Wrong. There is nothing wrong with loving your country more than others. It encourages people to contribute more, and increases competition.

Oh, there's plenty wrong. You love your country more than others since it is greater than others, you think your folk are better than others (supremacism), that others are worse (racism). You become a slave to, if not your government, then your country, and will become genocidist bullet fodder. You say this is only extreme nationalism. Well, moderate nationalism has this xenophobia moderately, maybe not even violently, but certainly awfully supremacist. Nationalism and pride are plagues. They used to be needed for living on back when humans were equal to monkeys - obedience of their master and selflessness hive minding. But now, we are not apes. As Tolstoy said, "Patriotism is slavery.". Since you're going to pseudo-recommend me books, I recommend you read Lev Tolstoy's "Patriotism and Christianity", chiefly arguing that patriotism is an un-Chrisitian deal. Of course banned immediately in Russia.

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Patriotism_and_Christianity

What is wrong with this? It will save lives in the long run by ending the war quicker. At least they won't be beheaded by ISIS. Honestly, international law on war as caused more death than it prevents. I suggest reading the Verdict of Battle (Whitman) to understand how by trying to coddle civilians, we just drag out wars even longer, causing MORE deaths.

What is wrong with this? Are you f-----ing asking that? You stupidhead pig who should die in a mudpool, are you f---ing asking that? Go to Hell, when Salafi resistance do the same thing to you, every American soldier, and American politician. Impale your dog, burn you in a cage, behead your mother. And then you come back, with half your face blown away from bombs, jaw blown off, and ask with what tongue and teeth you have left "What is wrong with this? The Syrians are just trying to end the war faster.".

Also, about that 20 billion surplus thing: 1) 20 billion isn't that much tbh. Maybe in Britain. But not in the US. Anyway, it isn't worth it. Look at Rotherham. I would rather be 20 billion worse off than have shariah law in parts of Britain accepted as official. Maybe you wouldn't, but that is just me.

ISLAM IS CANCER FOR THE WEST! I have nothing against individual Muslims, but the teachings of Islam are so contrary to all Western ideals. Not all are terrorists, it is true, but many not only do nothing to stop them, but support terrorism.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/12/16/geller-do-muslims-around-the-world-really-hate-the-united-states-yes/
The "moderate" Muslims only want to impose their woman-oppressing ideology through mass immigration and 4 wives x 4 kids each, until they have enough people to simply vote in Shariah law (see: Dearbornistan, Michigan; Rotherham.)

Maybe we should stop parading "West ideas as so great". I'm not a fan of all Islamic aspects, but maybe they'd be less faithful if they stopped getting bombed and funding to bomb each other every day. "Not all are terrorists?" How many terrorists have there been, out of about one and half million Muslim migrants, hmm? How many? And to phrase it as if the majority is terrorist, ugh, disgusting Islamphobic runt. You think European culture will actually somehow get overtaken by Islamic culture? Fat chance. If the EU accepted all the migrants, the Muslim population of the EU would grow from 4% to 5%. Oh wow, 1% holy cow, Muslims are oppressing us. You're worse than that Black Lives Matter thing that you hate, since you're the majority, and you're still whining about some mythic threat. Good god. You make me sick.

@GeneralPE

Also, about that 20 billion surplus thing: 1) 20 billion isn't that much tbh. Maybe in Britain. But not in the US. Anyway, it isn't worth it. Look at Rotherham. I would rather be 20 billion worse off than have shariah law in parts of Britain accepted as official. Maybe you wouldn't, but that is just me.

First you say immigration doesn't give anything to the country, now you say it doesn't give enough, what do you want me to say, you have a formed mind on the subject, it doesn't matter what I say or which facts I present, you'll still keep you shitty ideas on it.

And no, Islam isn't a cancer for the west. That's a stupid thing you've just said and really, I cannot see you anymore at nothing but as a right-wing radical. Have you read the Quran? Have you read the bible? the original one of course, not the one edited by the catholics for 2 thousand years in order to make it softer.

The Bible is far worse in matters of rights to women, defense of non-violence and against western values. As it appear to me your knowlage of religion is really wrong, let me enlighten you:

Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW and A MAN'S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD.

Matthew 10:34, 10:35 and 10:35

Signed Jesus Christ


Feels to me that christianism is really more authoritarian then BLM or Muslims for that matter.

Edited 3/7/2016 00:57:41

"What is wrong with this? Are you f-----ing asking that? You stupidhead pig who should die in a mudpool, are you f---ing asking that? Go to Hell, when Salafi resistance do the same thing to you, every American soldier, and American politician. Impale your dog, burn you in a cage, behead your mother. And then you come back, with half your face blown away from bombs, jaw blown off, and ask with what tongue and teeth you have left "What is wrong with this? The Syrians are just trying to end the war faster."."
So pretty much, you can't refute me with facts/logic, so just yell and scream evil? I'd rather take an American bomb than get burned alive by ISIS for being a Christian.

" If the EU accepted all the migrants, the Muslim population of the EU would grow from 4% to 5%. Oh wow, 1% holy cow, Muslims are oppressing us."
Except I'm pretty sure a) those numbers are wrong, and b) the active minority can overcome a silent majority. Just look at how much fuss LBGT people make, and they are only 4% of the population and far less bent on domination. Plus, your numbers don't take into effect incredibly high Muslims birthrates compared to European birthrates. Project the numbers over 2 generations, then talk to me.

"Feels to me that christianism is really more authoritarian then BLM or Muslims for that matter. "
Ok, is that why every majority Christian nation oppresses women, punishes people for burning the Bible, has honor killings, etc? Thought not

"The Bible is far worse in matters of rights to women, defense of non-violence and against western values. As it appear to me your knowlage of religion is really wrong, let me enlighten you:"
Never said anything about Christianity, but anyway: want to judge how people from a religion should act? Look at the founder. Jesus Christ, or Muhammed? Both are the ideals people of the two religions look up to. Muhammed was a violent raiding warlord who married a girl and killed hundreds of people in his lifetime of military conquest. Jesus healed people and let himself be killed rather than fight back and resist. Furthermore, people do not take every word in the Bible as it is. Finally, I am judging on the actions of the adherents. Tell me more about those thousands of Christian fundamentalist suicide bombers, and those people just cranking out babies so they can install Old Testament law. Oh, wait... So don't give me this "Bible is worse than Quran shit".

@Juq
Looking at your (rather shady) numbers, I calculate there will be 35 million Muslims in Europe. At .1% are terrorists, that is 35000 terrorists.

Edited 3/7/2016 01:12:37

What if I told you, the US created muslim extremism?

Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW and A MAN'S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD.

Jesus' coming is a sign of revolutionary change. His teachings go against Judaism, the traditional norm.

Matthew 10:37-39

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.


He that does not live as a Christian, a follower of Christ, should live, will not be deemed worthy of the Kingdom of God.

"What if I told you, the US created muslim extremism?"
What if I told you, Muhammed created Muslim extremism? O_o

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--RKYkJn7u--/17qwji27dn93ijpg.jpg

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/fa/fae348aeb186388be5f037cae345879101bd2c196181c3a05d0a90d0e439e90f.jpg
Sry, not a member :(

Edited 3/7/2016 01:24:06

How in the hell did this go from memes to a political debate?
Seriously, if you participated in it its partly your fault that the thread got derailed :p

What if I told you, the US created muslim extremism?

LOL. The Islamic Caliphates that conquered North Africa, the Middle East, and parts of the Indian Subcontinent and then exercised forced conversions and unending bloodshed on people of other faiths was around long before America bud. You remember the Jizya? How about the burning of Hindu temples? Hmm guess not, since hose were all pre-1776.

All the primary justifications of Jihadist groups rely on actual scriptural references from the Quran. Yes they are misinterpreting them and amplifying their message with references to the "evil imperialism" of the west, but the sheer fact that the Quran can allow extremists to twist its words to justify burning people in cages, slicing throats off, and engaging in sexual trafficking of underage girls is proof enough that the root of muslim extremism is located within and not external.

Don't defend Muslim Extremists by pointing the finger at Western Nations. You can choose a side. You're either with ISIS and the people killing Coptic Christians and Islamic Minorities, or you're against them and you support any and all attempts to utterly destroy them.

Edited 3/7/2016 01:41:10