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Gun Kontrol: 3/25/2016 21:37:33


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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Gun Kontrol: 3/26/2016 02:09:34


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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Short Version: Gun control has been used for a long time to oppress African Americans (and other groups of course) and to disarm them. Currently in cities with lots of black inhabitants there are laws there targeting gun ownership , and it does little to nothing to either stop gun violence or to stop violence in general. But it does cut the freedoms of the inhabitants of those cities by a lot.
Gun Kontrol: 3/26/2016 02:22:38


Darth Darth Binks
Level 56
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When we legally *limit/ban guns from a society that has been thriving with guns, guns will remain, as they have been completely integrated into society. The only ones who will be at the short end of the stick are the law abiding citizens who obey the *limitations/bans.

This can be seen in all communities, but it is more prevalent in the black community. Crime and poverty go hand-in-hand, so I guess the high poverty rate in those areas would be a reason why.

There are traces of going after guns here in Pennsylvania. Instead of going directly for the guns, they are trying to make it harder to obtain ammunition.


*"Ban" is hypothetical, as I know that guns have not been banned outright.
Gun Kontrol: 3/26/2016 02:54:07


TeamGuns 
Level 58
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Gun control helps to lower crime and avoidable deaths. It's to easy for anyone to kill people with it. And please don't say you need to have guns to avoid gvt from becoming a dictatorship and take away your freedom. It's not like you're gonna be able to take down tanks and stealth tactical fighters with your handgun...
Gun Kontrol: 3/26/2016 03:09:57


[AOE] JaiBharat909
Level 56
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It's not like you're gonna be able to take down tanks and stealth tactical fighters with your handgun...

Obviously you haven't learned the lesson of the Vietnam War, Iraq War, and the Afghanistan War. Guerilla tactics and asymmetrical warfare put tremendous pressure on conventional forces and large armed groups. Guns are an absolute necessary against the tyranny of the central government overruling the constitution and their delegated powers. The government can't use tanks and stealth jets when any opposition group is concealed among ordinary civilians. Guns would be a powerful deterrent against any attempt to destroy the democratic government the US currently has.

Edited 3/26/2016 03:10:20
Gun Kontrol: 3/26/2016 03:17:06


TeamGuns 
Level 58
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Nope it doesn't, and as technology advances, the common citizen's weapons become useless. In our modern world, the US could whipe out the hole population of a country in a matter of days.

The US could have won the Vietnam war if they really did what needed to be done. Public opinion stoped it, not the Vietnamise army. The US tactically won the war, after the Tet offensive, the vietnamise army hardly had any strike force left, the leaders admited it later that they thought the war was lost.
Gun Kontrol: 3/26/2016 03:23:37


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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The US could have won the Vietnam war if they really did what needed to be done. Public opinion stoped it, not the Vietnamise army. The US tactically won the war, after the Tet offensive, the vietnamise army hardly had any strike force left, the leaders admited it later that they thought the war was lost.


You like reading American textbooks, don't you?

That said, common guns and ownership laws didn't win the wars - in North Vietnam, gun ownership was also pretty tight, same in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's just a decent military force, not gun ownership.

The government can't use tanks and stealth jets when any opposition group is concealed among ordinary civilians.


Oh, keep this idyllic America, it is wonderful.

Edited 3/26/2016 03:23:52
Gun Kontrol: 3/26/2016 03:30:14


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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Yes, we do need to guns to defeat the US government in the event of the mass suspension of freedom. Personally, I believe that the government is already actively doing so, and should be stopped through non-violent action. Hundreds of humans are shot by belligerent police for their skin color, plants are illegal and millions have been jailed for having them, the government spies on you even.

On the subject of the American Army versus Guerillas: The US military was nearly overwhelmed several times in Afghanistan by a organization with a smaller population than the hypothetical Guerillas, a smaller amount of weapons than the hypothetical militias and the Taliban also had a much smaller population to draw off of to keep going. The Hypomilitias have the ability to actively attack facilities like dams , factories and nuclear plants and infrastructure like roads and bridges much easier than the Taliban had against the US.

Edited 3/26/2016 03:31:29
Gun Kontrol: 3/26/2016 03:34:22


Cata Cauda 
Level 57
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Guns are an absolute necessary against the tyranny of the central government overruling the constitution and their delegated powers. The government can't use tanks and stealth jets when any opposition group is concealed among ordinary civilians. Guns would be a powerful deterrent against any attempt to destroy the democratic government the US currently has.

You are definetely watching too many movies. Why would any democratic goverment want to overthrow the laws to create a dictatorship?
Not to mention that soldier are civilians with families and friends too.
Gun Kontrol: 3/26/2016 03:38:16


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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Why would any democratic goverment want to overthrow the laws to create a dictatorship?


Idyllicism. Just think about it, which one, if only caring for yourself, would you rather be: a volatily picked president with limited powers, or a dictator who can legally do anything?
Gun Kontrol: 3/26/2016 03:40:09


[AOE] JaiBharat909
Level 56
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Oh, keep this idyllic America, it is wonderful.

????

Even Gaza's Hamas Fighters concealed themselves among Hospitals and Schools where they knew the Israeli IDF wouldn't attack. The chances of the US government attacking innocent civilians to eliminate guerilla forces would be pretty low.

In our modern world, the US could whipe out the hole population of a country in a matter of days.

Uh sure...but what's the point. Russia could wipe out the whole population of the whole world in a couple of hours too. There's no overall point to this line of argument. The sole purpose of a central government is to govern and exercise power. How would the central government do that if they destroy the entire population with conventional military weapons? The purpose a tyrannical government is subjugation and not destruction. This is the difference. Guns provide the most powerful tool against subjugation. Just try getting Congress to ban guns and get rid of the 2nd amendment...I'm sure a very very peaceful group of gun-carrying citizens will descend on DC to "protest" if you get my drift.
Gun Kontrol: 3/26/2016 03:41:44


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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Most likely not make it non-democratic, just make some freedoms much weaker to allow the government more leg room. They did this by banning open carry in California which took the guns away from the Black Panthers who used open carry to defend Blacks against police oppression, have cut freedom of speech significantly too, want you to report sedetious friends, etc.

It is natural for government to try and curtail freedom in the name of progress, and when stress occurs to that government for the process to speed up. It is important for citizens of those countries controlled by those governments to be active against that freedom taking.
Gun Kontrol: 3/26/2016 03:44:50


Cata Cauda 
Level 57
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^
No offense, but you better move out of that country then, before it becomes a dictatorship, murders all it's disarmed citicen and bomb the rest of the world :)

Because thats exactly how you desribe the future of it.
Gun Kontrol: 3/26/2016 03:45:59


Benjamin628 
Level 59
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Things that can kill people:

Aerosol cans
Spray Paint
A Knife
A Rock
Rope
Fists
A Bed
Shoes
Markers
Drugs
Guns - we need to control this one, it can kill people!

tl;dr it's a people and mental health problem and not a gun problem.

Edited 3/26/2016 03:47:36
Gun Kontrol: 3/26/2016 03:51:06


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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Oh we will disregard each other's points and make jokes that avoid the point now?

The government is great, they drop crates of puppies and kittens on Afghan peoples yards, only spy on terrorists and criminals, there's no guns and no crime and everyone has everything they need ,globally, the elections aren't rigged, the drug war has been won, only at the price of giving up our rights, GO USA!
Gun Kontrol: 3/26/2016 03:51:19


Darth Darth Binks
Level 56
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Gun control helps to lower crime and avoidable deaths.

Not in a society that is this far in gun integration.

It's to easy for anyone to kill people with it.

It will be even easier when we take guns away from the law abiding citizens.

And please don't say you need to have guns to avoid gvt from becoming a dictatorship and take away your freedom. It's not like you're gonna be able to take down tanks and stealth tactical fighters with your handgun...

If a worthwhile rebellion were to take place, the military would be split.
Gun Kontrol: 3/26/2016 03:52:20


Cata Cauda 
Level 57
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A Knife

Yeah, if I went for a killing spree (Because I am mentally insane US-American who is mad at the goverment, of course), I would rather take 15 knives with me than a pistol).
Gun Kontrol: 3/26/2016 03:56:26


Darth Darth Binks
Level 56
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Yeah, if I went for a killing spree (Because I am mentally insane US-American who is mad at the goverment, of course), I would rather take 15 knives with me than a pistol).

Hey, it's silent, really hard to miss, much easier to acquire, and cheaper. If I wanted any chance of getting away with murder, I would use a knife.
Gun Kontrol: 3/26/2016 03:57:03


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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Oh you're right Cata, the government is great, look at how they brought goodness to Afghanistan, Somalia, Iraq, Syria, Libya, and Pakistan from their moral rightousness packages dropped by their drones painted in peace signs. They haven't imprisoned and killed thousands over the selling of plants and you aren't being spied on, the government is great!
Gun Kontrol: 3/26/2016 03:58:05


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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Hey, it's silent, really hard to miss, much easier to acquire, and cheaper. If I wanted any chance of getting away with murder, I would use a knife.

The trick is being a cop.
Gun Kontrol: 3/26/2016 03:58:10


[AOE] JaiBharat909
Level 56
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^No. I would use ricin extracted from the seeds of the castor oil plant. A dose of purified ricin powder the size of a few grains of table salt can kill an adult human.
Gun Kontrol: 3/26/2016 03:58:59


TeamGuns 
Level 58
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About the Vietnam war, I don't read american textbooks, you know I'm mostly anti-american when it comes to international interventions. But you can't deny that the US could have won the Vietnam war lol. It's just a matter of if the ends justify the means.

Quick tips on how to win the Vietnam war:

- Just start killing everyone on north vietnam in a genocide style thing until there's no more civilians there.
- Wait the army on the jungle to die because they have no more supplies while you just gaz hole portions of the forest to speed up the process.

Done, your war is won. Now the international community and western public opinion wouldn't accept that, thank god lol.


About stuff that kills people control, it's not that all of the other stuff should or shouldn't be legal. It's just that the ability to kill someone with a gun is 10x higher then doing the same with knives or markers lol... About drugs, it's not a point here, you can't mass kill people by forcing them to inject heroin. I can't even think of why some1 would do that.
Gun Kontrol: 3/26/2016 03:59:27


Cata Cauda 
Level 57
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Oh you're right Cata, the government is great, look at how they brought goodness to Afghanistan, Somalia, Iraq, Syria, Libya, and Pakistan from their moral rightousness packages dropped by their drones painted in peace signs. They haven't imprisoned and killed thousands over the selling of plants and you aren't being spied on, the government is great!

You voted for it, not me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Gun Kontrol: 3/26/2016 04:00:36


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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Even Gaza's Hamas Fighters concealed themselves among Hospitals and Schools where they knew the Israeli IDF wouldn't attack. The chances of the US government attacking innocent civilians to eliminate guerilla forces would be pretty low.


When the capital borough is being overun, when a country is critically losing a war, in real "national emergency", so to speak, there are no laws. The government will do whatever the hell it needs to stay in power. IRM is not going to discriminate, since Palestine is overrun.

America has put down military draft several times, although a critic war has never happened on the American side, not for 200 years. And what is military draft? It is sending innocent men, against their will in order to risk their life. It is forcing civilians to be killed. Now, if America will do that for invasions very much in their favour, along with illegal and mostly secret torture, gaols, and killings, what do you think the American government would do when the Washington fat cats are in hazard of being overrun?

And America is willing to do false flag attacks, there's even a declassified document detailing how America could start a war with Cuba, including false flag attacks against American civilians.

This is the most awful, disgusting thing of patriotism: thinking government as just volunteer angels, instead of cruel, selfish, vile swine in the case of America, anyway.
Gun Kontrol: 3/26/2016 04:05:36


TeamGuns 
Level 58
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Yeap, I read the stuff about the attack on cuba, really dirty thing. But again, how would americans prevent this by having guns?

About the gun control thing, of course it wouldn't take away guns from american citizens, but it would be harder to have more of them. If you start to collect guns in exchange for money it could speed up the process in a democratic way. Again, you could just start taking away guns from all citizens, but I doubt those right wingy people would accept that, neither to I really think it's the best solution.
Gun Kontrol: 3/26/2016 04:11:45


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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Cata, stop this retardation and actually argue. All you do is snarkiness about the glories of government when Europe can't take some refugees without throwing a fit and becoming more authoritarian. You guys reacted horribly, Hungary quite literally defied human rights by refusing refugees into their country because of their religion. What the hell is that? The core of the leftists' beliefs on this website revolve around giving the government more power while hoping they don't use it poorly. This has almost always backfired. In America, the federal government has become much more powerful over the 200 years and that's resulted in millions of deaths world-wide. In Germany Hitler neutered the Reichstag, uped Propaganda and increased militarism.
Gun Kontrol: 3/26/2016 04:59:22


chuck norris
Level 58
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Things that can kill people:

Aerosol cans
Spray Paint
A Knife
A Rock
Rope
Fists
A Bed
Shoes
Markers
Drugs
Guns - we need to control this one, it can kill people!

tl;dr it's a people and mental health problem and not a gun problem.

lets try a mass killing with all of those things, which is more succesful?
Gun Kontrol: 3/26/2016 05:00:45


chuck norris
Level 58
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Gun control helps to lower crime and avoidable deaths.

Not in a society that is this far in gun integration.

this is the first sensible argument against gun control ive ever heard good job
Gun Kontrol: 3/26/2016 05:05:21


chuck norris
Level 58
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About the gun control thing, of course it wouldn't take away guns from american citizens, but it would be harder to have more of them. If you start to collect guns in exchange for money it could speed up the process in a democratic way. Again, you could just start taking away guns from all citizens, but I doubt those right wingy people would accept that, neither to I really think it's the best solution.

they did this in australia and it worked well
http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/561817dbbd86ef195c8b5a7f-1200-900/australia-gun-deaths-bi.png

https://62e528761d0685343e1c-f3d1b99a743ffa4142d9d7f1978d9686.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/files/88908/area14mp/image-20150719-21056-1yd4tex.png 1996 the government started buying guns off of people and regulating who can buy a gun after the sandy hook massacre and since then there has only been one mass shooting

Edited 3/26/2016 05:11:05
Gun Kontrol: 3/26/2016 05:08:02


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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Aerosol cans
Spray Paint
A Knife
A Rock
Rope
Fists
A Bed
Shoes
Markers
Drugs
Guns - we need to control this one, it can kill people!


An G18 machine pistol will shoot up to 20 bullets each second, and has an effective firing range up to 50m, but is easy to hide.

Most long-range sniper rifles will work up to 2,000m, making for undetectable killers easier than ever before.

Shoes have no effective range, and have maximum 2 shots, which are best said as independently semi-automatic.

If a worthwhile rebellion were to take place, the military would be split.


The military forces are taught what is right. In civil wars, brothers will fight brothers. A lesser known war, it would be almost funny, but it ended sadly. The Coconut War. In 1980, Vanuatu gained independence from Britain and France. A bloke named Jimmy Stevens led an independence movement for the biggest island of Vanuatu, Espiritu Santo. He got the support of the local folk and eventually managed a bloodless overthrow of Vanutan authority on the island. Vanuatu invited Moresbian forces to put down the revolt, and so the soldiers came. Most on Espiritu Santo did not want to fight a professional army, and those that did had bows and slingshots as their most powerful weapons. Stevens wanted conditional peace and wanted to negotiate, but Moresbian forces refused and hunted the weak rebels down, killing folk. The rebels were gunned down pitilessly. The sad climax of the war was when J. Stevens's son tried to bypass a Moresbian roadblock and was denied. Soon after, J. Stevens surrendered, and the war was pretty much over. He said he never intended anyone to get hurt in the movement. He was put into prison until he was freed on medic grounds, and he died 3 years later of cancer.

The soldiers, they killed folk who peacefully got independence, and always wanted peace. And these folk were armed with slingshots and bows, and gunned down, and these were soldiers from a much less professional army than America, and they did this.

Civil wars will have brothers fight brother, since their government tells them to. Soldiers are brainwashed, they are broken. Their sense of individuality is 0, they act for the squad, even if it means they die. All they are taught to care about are their orders.

Hey, it's silent, really hard to miss, much easier to acquire, and cheaper. If I wanted any chance of getting away with murder, I would use a knife.


There are silent (quiet) guns, too. Outside suppressors help quiet them, but there are also built-in suppressors sometimes, which can make guns really quiet. AS Val for example. Automatic rifle effective up to 300m. Less powerful, but the OT-38, I've shot this. 5 shot silent revolver with effective range up to 50m. Sounds weaker, but it's cheaper, fully flashless, concealable, and really quiet. Also, you could make a bad jab with a knife, and have that lose some critic time for you (saying this as a fencer - it's the worst thing to miss your target with a high energy jab - your momentum carries your arm, and in a real fight, they can just grab your arm and then you've lost all advantage you have. A small semi-automat at that range, if you miss, you just have to turn a few centimetres.

No. I would use ricin extracted from the seeds of the castor oil plant. A dose of purified ricin powder the size of a few grains of table salt can kill an adult human.


I mean, if you have the knowhow and stuffhow to do that (which is not common), then sure, but then sarin is far more effective.

About the Vietnam war, I don't read american textbooks, you know I'm mostly anti-american when it comes to international interventions. But you can't deny that the US could have won the Vietnam war lol. It's just a matter of if the ends justify the means.


Well, America could have won pretty much most of its modern wars by, y'know, sending over some extra-size atomic bombs. But conventionally, no. Your tips, they are not conventional, second one, though, I don't know enough about the Vietnam War, but jungles is where food can be grown, there is life in the jungles. And the jungles have foxholes, through foxholes are remote bases and mines, moats, and traps if the Americans try to get though.

Edited 3/26/2016 05:43:10
Posts 1 - 30 of 41   1  2  Next >>   

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