Let's see what the Europeans did with firearms: Feudal attacks on each other for hundreds of years
Africa: Repelling the Mongols at the Battle of Ain Jalut.
Let's see your Roman Empire, your role model. Killing and enslaving hundreds of thousands and creating a corrupt, autocratic empire. Civilized? Hardly. Athens, your other role model, slaughtering a entire city because they didn't want to join in a war against Sparta. So civilized.

In the less than 250 years the US existed they did similar stuff too. slaugherting indigenious tribes, killing each other in indipendance wars, killing outside of your own country (Korea, Vietnam, Iraq (twice), etc, etc...).

Heroin addicts killing children, so civilized.

The US has Heroin addicted children too.

Criminals have AK-47s in Marseilles,

Cant confirm that.

Hungarian politicians refuse to admit refugees based on religion violating international law,

Oh cry cry. Why dont YOU take the refugees instead? You have so much free space and so many unused houses. So much money. Why dont you help Europe out a bit, huh?

lol the truth comes out. Europe still believes in cultural imperialism folks. Go colonize Africa again you dirty supremacists.

No we fucked up there, I admit that.

Ah, so I can't understand since I'm an uncivilized barbarian. Good to know.

I hope some enlightened Europeans save us one day.

Sorry to hear that.

Jai must just be a savage child, where's a Brit? You have to take his rights away and tax him. Make sure you draft him and make him a soldier, though he's against that since it's his religion, just voodoo superstition right? Make sure those gun powder papers are coated with cow fat too, he's just a stupid savage , he won't notice. Oh and make sure you sell opium to Chinese markets , and then attack China when they complain.

Again, coming up with past events wont back up your argument.

That's literally the definition of cultural imperialism, and you trying to deflect upon that truth reveals to a certain extent why the hubris of Europe will be its downfall (its already begun).

If we come to the point were we need guns to defend ourselves and dont trust our own goverment anymore, we definetely have to worry.

^ Keypoint here.
What I wanted to say with

In a civilised world you dont need to defend yourself. Europe is civilised - America not.

is that in Europe we know that it's the goverment's duty to defend their citizens and not the citizen's one. I didnt mean to say that the US is less civilised that Europe in general, but only when it comes to gun laws.


Cata out.

In Europe the government does not defend you, the governments there are just like all governments. They restrict human liberty routinely and kill routinely. Power makes these governments better at doing it, but all governments do it. The more bigger the government, the more people are enslaved. What way of killing has killed the most people in history that is non-natural? Democide. 350+ million people have been killed by the governments of the world. Government is like fire, it can be a good servant, but a terrible master.

Hungarian politicians refuse to admit refugees based on religion violating international law,

This is one nation not whole Europe, and if you followed recent events in Europe, there was a huge arguement between Hungary and most of the Western European nations, Germany and France were about to take actions against Hungary since Hungary was not respecting the deal.
When you join the EU you have rights but also duties. Some nations like Hungary or Poland often tend to forget it.

Furthermore, this is quite hypocrite to say this, as Americans aren't better in this matter, since people like Trump would not tolerate any Muslim, not even tourists, blocking 1,7 billion people just because of their faith, do you think this would respect International Law?

Edited 3/30/2016 01:23:30

is that in Europe we know that it's the goverment's duty to defend their citizens and not the citizen's one.

When someone comes into my house to come murder me I'll be sure to wait for the cops to drive the 20 minutes it takes to get to my house and save me.

In Europe the government does not defend you, the governments there are just like all governments. They restrict human liberty routinely and kill routinely. Power makes these governments better at doing it, but all governments do it. The more bigger the government, the more people are enslaved. What way of killing has killed the most people in history that is non-natural? Democide. 350+ million people have been killed by the governments of the world. Government is like fire, it can be a good servant, but a terrible master.

I am not surprised to hear that from an US-American. If I asked my mother what she thought about the goverment she would tell thats its not the best goverment, but hey atleast she feels save and doesnt have to fear for her life.

And where do you get those 350+ million from? A source would be appreciated... or uh, I am sure they were all commited by the US-Goverment :)

When someone comes into my house to come murder me I'll be sure to wait for the cops to drive the 20 minutes it takes to get to my house and save me.

See the numbers posted by other people on the previous page. You are less likely to be killed in Europe than in the US.

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/QA.V2.HTML#statistics

Cata, you would be a great soldier. You already don't question orders from the government. The US government let's foreigners into the Army, I think you'd fit in there, your patriotism and bigotry would be put to good use.

You are less likely to be killed in Europe than in the US.

But I'm more likely to die without having a good chance of defending myself.

Ikr MGSB I doubt anyone read that one Imprimis link I put up like 3 times. They just assume I am a redneck, Muslim-hating, gun-toting hillbilly and any links I give are therefore irrelevant. smh

Let's use the NRA arguement here. Governments don't kill people. People kill people.

And if we're gonna pull a bunch of death stats that include the hole history of mankind, more people died from deceases then government since it was created. I'm pretty sure it's also the case for malnutrition and poor alimentation habits.


Government isn't bad if there's oversight on it. How many people did the government of Denmark kill last year? What about Sweden's or Switzerland's? Government is as bad as the people that manage it.

Sweden used eugenics on the Sampi to try and ethnically cleanse them, and they're not even that strong. If a nation is weak, it has a harder time limiting freedoms and killing people. Government is a organization that can do on it's own. Guns are inanimate objects. For example, a gun cannot use a government to kill since it cannot act. However a government can use guns to mass murder.

Didn't we say that we should avoid using all those past events? No nation has never made atrocious and shameful things in the past. The US also tried to ethnically cleanse native americans. Blaming this on actual americans and it's government is futile.

Are you effing kidding me? You want to forget the genocides against the native Americans, completely disregard history and put our faith in something that only looks good when you ignore history? We should forget all science and mathematics too, that's old stuff. Let's put our full faith in government, why, I'll join the army right now!

And if we're gonna pull a bunch of death stats that include the hole history of mankind, more people died from deceases then government since it was created. I'm pretty sure it's also the case for malnutrition and poor alimentation habits.

We all agree that those are bad (natural too, I said unnatural causes). So why can't we also agree another mass killer is bad?

Government isn't bad if there's oversight on it. How many people did the government of Denmark kill last year? What about Sweden's or Switzerland's? Government is as bad as the people that manage it.

The government is the oversight. In the last 10 years, even these small countries, being part of NATO, of course help NATO do its wreckings. Sweden and Switzerland for a while had atomic bomb projects. Danmark and Switzerland still have disgusting antigeneven military drafts. As NATO puppets, they're as bad as Barack Obama, but they don't have to be in the NATO. The point is, even the little countries will be mad. Less government = better government, 99% time.

Major, I never said we should forget the past, did I say that? Stop inventing things I never said. Forgeting the history is the first step to repeat it. What I said is that you can't blame the actual government and population for the mistakes of the past.

Furthermore, this is quite hypocrite to say this, as Americans aren't better in this matter, since people like Trump would not tolerate any Muslim, not even tourists, blocking 1,7 billion people just because of their faith, do you think this would respect International Law?

Except I am in support of admitting refugees, do not whitewash American atrocities and am anti-nationalist. Now what are you? A vehement European Nationalist and big government supporter. You are the typical nationalist, regardless of how much you try to paint me as one.

Didn't we say that we should avoid using all those past events? No nation has never made atrocious and shameful things in the past. The US also tried to ethnically cleanse native americans. Blaming this on actual americans and it's government is futile.

You just did say that.

And yes, we can blame it on governments. They have not changed, just gotten bigger and are just as horrifically murderous. Ignoring a trend like that, and simply crying foul when someone refuses to hand over their life without a fight is treasonous to humanity.

For anyone arguing the US needs more guns, please note that 75% of shootings in the US are accidental(75%) with that I'm out I wasted to much time today.