^lol

But anyhow, I am saying gun bans won't work for most countries, so don't ban guns.

I don't defend the full banning of guns owned by civilians on a short term measure. It might not even be possible to do that on a way I'd fully support, but any sort of actual gun laws the US posseses or any candidate for the presidential elections defends, I am more radical.

@Imperator
So, either I am a pro-life because I don't want to see innocents killed by guns sold to irresponsible people, or you are because you think abortion should be outlawed. Either way, under your definition, none of us is pro-life.

Edited 4/19/2016 20:22:29

If you're actually pro-life, then you better be prepared to wear gas masks for the list of your life, so that you don't kill innocent dust mites by breathing them, and be vegetarian, and never cut grass.

That's ridiculous, why would I do that?

So, either I am a pro-life because I don't want to see innocents killed by guns sold to irresponsible people, or you are because you think abortion should be outlawed. Either way, under your definition, none of us is pro-life.

No, you're not pro-life, you're just using pro-life arguments ("It's a violation of liberty to be killed") to justify your anti-liberty positions on Gun Control.

To Be perfectly clear: Yes, it is a violation of rights to be killed, and it is also a violation of rights to take away guns from tens or hundreds of millions of americans and use the excuse that 8 thousand people are killed each year by these hundreds of millions of guns. It is also pretty dumb if you are pro-life to focus your efforts on eight thousand lives rather than on around seven hundred thousand.

Edited 4/19/2016 20:36:48

I don't defend the full banning of guns owned by civilians on a short term measure. It might not even be possible to do that on a way I'd fully support, but any sort of actual gun laws the US posseses or any candidate for the presidential elections defends, I am more radical.

I don't think there should be no checks or regulation, but make it so that the normal fellow can get a gun if one wants. No violent criminal past or madness or anything like that, very restricted selling to those folk.

That's ridiculous, why would I do that?

You're pro-life, right?

Seriously, I don't think (most) anyone disagrees that a fellow's life is very valuable.

Edited 4/19/2016 20:30:06

I don't think there should be no checks or regulation, but make it so that the normal fellow can get a gun if one wants. No violent criminal past or madness or anything like that, very restricted selling to those folk.

This already happens in the US; if you're a convicted felon, you can't buy any guns.

You're pro-life, right?

Seriously, I don't think (most) anyone disagrees that a fellow's life is very valuable.

Pro-life doesn't mean that you disagree with killing plants, that's called vegan or something. The term "pro-life" refers specifically to human life.

Edited 4/19/2016 20:33:37

i am not against guns i am for it but i think that the laws right now are fine and nothing needs to be changed

Why do we need extortion and inflation to pay for the army, for the defense industry, for bankrupted banks or for intelligence agencies?

A state should have higher priorities like improving its welfare system and education, more than anything else. Something that will not happen at all with people like Cruz, the Donald or even the Klington.

The number one priority for a state: Not existing.

Also are you just retarded? You know I am against intelligence agencies, warring militaries and socialism/corporatism. Stop trying to get the moral high ground in a thread by accusing me of supporting something I am clearly against.

Edited 4/19/2016 21:59:22

The number one priority for a state: Not existing.

Or to make sure anarchy doesn't happen.

Anarchy = Without rulers

Nothing bad about that.

Pro-life doesn't mean that you disagree with killing plants, that's called vegan or something. The term "pro-life" refers specifically to human life.

For life means you're for life. You don't get to be picky about these things when using such a phrase, maybe you should say for-human-life.

@Major General Smedley Butler

Anarchy isn't preferable to government. There is something called state of nature which is explained very well by Hobbes.

Plus, anarchy would be useless, history has showed us that whenever there's a lack of leadership in a said place, it will inevitably end in someone becoming a leader. That's pretty much how human societies work... Your idea fails just like communism do, without a central government, it is inevitable that someone will raise to become the "leader of the tribe".


@Imperator

This already happens in the US; if you're a convicted felon, you can't buy any guns.

It's not like you can't still get guns in a legal way even if you are a convicted felon by exploiting loop holes eh? Plus, the supply in guns is so high on the country, that it's really easy to acquire one in an ilegal way.

Pro-life doesn't mean that you disagree with killing plants, that's called vegan or something. The term "pro-life" refers specifically to human life.

What? No one advocates against killing plants because they're living things lol... And if someone did that, I'm pretty sure they'd be dead by the end of the week. Vegans are against eating animal derivates. Well, I'm getting out of the point here.


I'll make a thread about abortion maybe tomorrow, so we can discuss that in detail.

For life means you're for life. You don't get to be picky about these things when using such a phrase, maybe you should say for-human-life.

Are you trolling me or something? Here is the definition of Pro-life:

Opposing abortion and euthanasia

(http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/pro-life)

It's not like you can't still get guns in a legal way even if you are a convicted felon by exploiting loop holes eh?

I have relatives who are convicted felons, so I'm pretty sure I'm more knowledgeable on the subject, especially given that I actually live in america and not in brazil.

Edited 4/19/2016 22:40:02

Voluntaryism , the core of Ancap thought along with the NAP says that folk should not organize folk with violence. There has never been a time with organization of folk with violence.

Are you trolling me or something? Here is the definition of Pro-life:

Ok, then stop trying to make it seem like pro-life has a bigger meaning than just that. Pro-life doesn't mean for life, it means against abortion, as you say.

Ok, then stop trying to make it seem like pro-life has a bigger meaning than just that. Pro-life doesn't mean for life, it means against abortion, as you say.

You're the one who's trying to make it have a bigger meaning than that with gems like these:

If you're actually pro-life, then you better be prepared to wear gas masks

Be vegetarian

Never cut grass

I never said it had any other meaning. Like I said, I'm not the one trying to claim that pro-life means you're against mowing your lawn and breathing.

Edited 4/19/2016 23:35:09

I have relatives who are convicted felons, so I'm pretty sure I'm more knowledgeable on the subject, especially given that I actually live in america and not in brazil.

I'm sorry that I live in Brazil and I can't possibly know about the Gun show loophole, where the term refers to the viewpoint that there is an inadequacy in federal law, under which "[a]ny person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of the State where he resides as long as he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms". So, as long as you look nice, you can get legally a gun on a Gun show, even if you're a convict.

It might be prohibited to sell guns to convicted felons, but there's an effective loophole on gun shows.


@Major General Smedley Butler

The first time I talked to an anarcho capitalist, it was 3 years ago. He was a brilliant person and had actual good arguments to defend his position. We talked for hours about anarcho capitalism. Back then I hadn't near as much knowlage as I possess today, but I've got 3 years to think on the matter.

Yes, I thinked on this for at least 3 years. And my conclusion on this matter is that even though he had very good convincing arguments, which you in fact lack, he was wrong. His project couldn't work, because it is utopian. Pretty much like communism, or any other anarchist movement, the ancap won't work because it ignores the most important factor on the equation: human nature.

All I have to say is, if you're going to make a pro-lief argument, you'd better be prepared to be actually pro-life.

you're just using pro-life arguments ("It's a violation of liberty to be killed") to justify your anti-liberty positions on Gun Control.

Umm, I don't think the for-life group has the "humans are going to get killed" argument all to themselves. (just about) Noone agrees that folk should be killed, that's sadist, yet there are for-choice folk somehow. I definitely don't think folk should be killed, but in order not to be hypocritc, illegalising murder and harm of all beasts that feel pain (it's a scratchy border, but whatever), not just humans. This would not mean illegalising abortion unless it is at a somewhat late part (and even then, iffy. They used to do surgery on babies without anaesthesia since their nervous system was so undeveloped, they didn't feel much pain.).

I definitely don't think folk should be killed, but in order not to be hypocritc, illegalising murder and harm of all beasts that feel pain

It's not about "all beasts that feel pain", but rather that Human life is inherently worth more than animal life, which is something that most people can agree on. I mean, in practically every single country, there are protections on human life (Laws against murder) that just are not there for animals.

Also, Are you now acknowledging that Babies in the womb are Human Life? I've previously observed that you have a lot of trouble with this concept and frequently refer to them as "beasts".

Edited 4/19/2016 23:54:33

Human life is inherently worth more than animal life, which is something that most people can agree on

I see this as an awful kind of supremacism. It's no better than some ethnicities thinking they're "inherently better" and worth more than others.

Also, Are you now acknowledging that Babies in the womb are Human Life? I've previously observed that you have a lot of trouble with this concept and frequently refer to them as "beasts".

Humans are beasts, but yes, they can't really be classed as anything other as specie: wise man.

I see this as an awful kind of supremacism. It's no better than some ethnicities thinking they're "inherently better" and worth more than others.

I don't think ethnicities are "inherently" better, but some cultures, and by extension the people of that culture, certainly are. And I certainly believe humans are worth more than beasts. Do you really believe a fly or mouse is worth as much as a human?

There have been million of opportunities for you to be killed by folk who surround you, it is really quite easy to kill another person. Why haven't you been killed? Maybe because folk don't want to kill each other all the time. The vast majority of folk do not want to kill kill kill, and the majority of the ones that do are what Anarcho-Capitalism wants to get rid of.