Agreed Sultan

Sułtan Kosmitów WarLight Member
Level 63
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Auto distribution on duel map is also fair.

But manual distribution is another area to compete, where a better player can gain advantage over a worse one.

While WR may even out and increase strategic value of a game, auto distrinution may even out but decrease strategic value of a game.

Correct me if I am wrong please.

In the game of chess, half time you have white and half time black figures. If everybody agrees that white wins most the time, so the game is not fully balanced, then in this game auto-distribution is just a step forward equal chances when you start. Giving three starting locations and no wastelands may nullify starting luck (where are most desirable positions), and then everything depends of wit and skill of players. On the other hand, manual distribution always give better player (and older or skilled one) starting edge. I would rather see to be beaten in 5th turn than in very first one.

Come on hasdrubal! Maybe you play 200 1vs1 games against opponents who know how to commit orders before you make statements like

《Giving three starting locations and no wastelands may nullify starting luck》on auto distribution

Don't make warlight like chess

@Hasdrubal

Following your line of thinking Pure-Skill settings will be best - they eliminate all the luck.
Autodistribution does not eliminate it - there are always some better sets then others.

Ladder is supposed to represent this values:
1. Have fair rules for everyone, game should be decided by skill.
2. Be responsive to to even small skill difference between players.
3. Provide people with joy, make them have fun.

The point is to find solution which corresponds with all three of thouse.

A1. It is said how fairness is understood by some this days. :/
Newbies are not that good as skilled, expirienced players so they have less chances to win. - true
Same people who are short has less chances to be good basketball players,big well-built people have less chances to be a good jockey.
This is not discrimination. As long as the rules are same for everyone it is fair.

A2. This is a point so important to MoD. He thinks WR deepers the chance gap between players that is created by the skill difference.

A3. This can be seen very by everyone in some other way. But includes such important aspects like game length, map, number of templates, etc.

There are also some technical problems like rating system, matching players system etc. That is included in 1/2 again.


Ofcourse there will always be players who don't agree with this three points, for whom ladder should represent some other values or what is more common (very often majority) who don't really know what they want :)

Edited 4/29/2016 07:45:43

hasn't 1 week passed already? curious on the results.

He said atleast 1 week, so it can be 51 weeks
If fizzer wants...

It hasnt been a week yet, 1:30 today will be a week

Edited 4/30/2016 13:08:21

Still can't wait. :)

He said atleast a week, i think he wants like X votes

Guess it will go on for more than a week :P

Sułtan Kosmitów [WarLight Member] Level 63 Report @Hasdrubal

Following your line of thinking Pure-Skill settings will be best - they eliminate all the luck.
Autodistribution does not eliminate it - there are always some better sets then others.

Ladder is supposed to represent this values:
1. Have fair rules for everyone, game should be decided by skill.
2. Be responsive to even small skill difference between players.
3. Provide people with joy, make them have fun.

The point is to find solution which corresponds with all three of thouse.

A1. It is said how fairness is understood by some this days. :/
Newbies are not that good as skilled, expirienced players so they have less chances to win. - true
Same people who are short has less chances to be good basketball players,big well-built people have less chances to be a good jockey.
This is not discrimination. As long as the rules are same for everyone it is fair.

I agree, and that is not the thing I would ever have complains.

A2. This is a point so important to MoD. He thinks WR deepers the chance gap between players that is created by the skill difference.

A3. This can be seen very by everyone in some other way. But includes such important aspects like game length, map, number of templates, etc.

There are also some technical problems like rating system, matching players system etc. That is included in 1/2 again.

No system is perfect, well balanced system will always have points where they tend to diverge. Chaotic systems, on the contrary, rarely have a chance to converge (like current level system).

Ofcourse there will always be players who don't agree with this three points, for whom ladder should represent some other values or what is more common (very often majority) who don't really know what they want :)

Current ladder system is OK, and I think that if we add variety in ladders, it would be better. Problem is, which comes in my mind, current RT ladder, where people can't practice games from the list because they are forbidden because of their level. So, ladder games should either have map limitations lowered, or should have starting settings different from game to game, thus forcing older player to suit themselves for the game rules. People who plays the same game for 1000th time will have upper hand over the people who plays the game for first time (current ladder), but with different settings each game will be unique (save for tournaments, but these are not ladder games).

@semicedevine - go to create game -> templates -> all built in multiplayer templates.
There are few more templates you can use without appropriate level (1v1/2v2/3v3 ladders and one with LD)
It worked always that way (in "pre-levels ere" you could create ladder settings game without membership despite it was needed to create <75% luck games)

+1 Semice

Can't wait on the results!

My current bets are:

- 1v1 ladder remains the same
- 2v2 ladder gets one more pick
- 3v3 ladder keeps 5 base income, but the results will be close; I doubt very highly the map will change *sigh*


RT-ladder and seasonnals are harder to predict, but for the rt-ladder I think turkey, light fog and commanders are out; old ladder, french brawl + 1 LD are in.

@TeamGuns: those are predictions for poll results, or Fizzer's actions?

Like if WR beats SR on 1v1 ladder 55/45 it's not going to change. If it were to beat it 80/20 (it won't) Fizzer might seriously consider it.


I really wish there was a multi-day, multi-template 1v1 ladder.

Semicedevine Level 58
Fun fact: to put random stuff into perspective, you technically can not create a ladder game by yourself until you are at the very least level 36 (or somewhere around it I forget) since that is when you unlock delay card

but at the same time, for some strange reason you can still set up a game with strat MME settings simply by going to a 1v1 ladder game and click on the template, then "create new game with settings"

comment: WTF

And, this is exactly why I complain. On lower levels I could not start the game with maps or settings that are locked. If they are unlocked for single player games I would be able to see what is there before actually start ladder game. Don't think I have problems, now, with these settings (but have to check to be sure).