The analogy to older Israeli-Arab wars is not applicable, since it would be state terrorism, not true war. It would give terrorists a haven, and the only way to take that away is to invade, and then the problem is back again.

Terrorists already have a haven in gaza and liban. Making a second state would take away a lot of their purpose of existance; plus they'd lose the population support, the only factor that makes them able to still exist despite Israel's efforts to get rid of them. In fact, everytime they try the situation gets worse.


@The Lord

For me I see christians and muslims views on each other the same way. A problem that isn't cultural or just because of religion, but for bad acts of minorities. Muslim terrorists will kill christians, and western leaders will bomb the middle east. But both are a result of non-understanding of the situation and the failure to see both sides of the coin like you don't. You think that Islam is the problem and you forget that christianity has a big responsability on this shit too.


For the extremists, we clearly have a problem when it comes to lawmakers. They are weak and won't do what needs to be done, but that's pretty much true for every controversial field. To be honest to you, if I were on their place I'd just jail everyone.

KKK member? Jailed for racism.
WBS member? Jailed for homophobia.
Muslim extremist preacher? Jailed for hatred speech.
Christian extremist preacher? Jailed for hatred speech.

The liberty of one ends when their actions have consequences that end's another's freedom.

Stop being a tyrant, dumb arse KKK members have done jackarse lately. Most extremist preachers have done little too. You have no right to police folks' minds.

Islamophobia!!! Islamophobia everywhere!!! Stop!!!

To be honest to you, if I were on their place I'd just jail everyone.

If Teamguns had his way, we'd all be jailed for being racist, homophobic, sexist, misogynistic bigots long ago. Anything that doesn't agree with his far left agenda will immediately be 'hatred speech'.

Edited 5/5/2016 14:51:41

You keep mentioning that the West bombed / bombs the Middle East and that this is causing all the terrorism and violence in Paris, Brussels etc. There is some point to that and Bush was a disaster, but for the most part, it has nothing to do with it. Take for instance Islamic homophobia. Why do Muslims hate gays so much? Do they think that GWB was gay? No. They hate gays because hatred of gays is an integral part of Islamic culture. Either Muslims need to change that or Trump needs to do something radical and effective.

Most extremist preachers have done little too. You have no right to police folks' minds.

I disagree, extremist preachers are the ones responsible for radicalization in europe.

Edited 5/5/2016 14:45:55

I disagree, extremist preachers are the ones responsible for radicalization in europe.

Ah yes, all those far right extremist preachers. Never mind all those terrorists attacks in Europe! They are actually peaceful! Why would anyone feel radicalized when hundreds of people are killed? Outrageous bigotry!

People have no right to stand up for their own country and national security against terrorism! If you do so you are an extremist preacher!

And you should be jailed!

Edited 5/5/2016 14:51:03

one of the most powerful man in Great Britain will be a Muslim guy, soon to be Mayor of London.

I'm referring to their control over politicians through their lobby. I didn't say they had control over the electorate.

Also, there are already Muslim persons in a much more powerful position than the Mayor of London. And in my view he won't win. I support Zac Goldsmith as the better pick.

This is the mentality of a lot of 'moderate Muslims', I'm afraid. They make preposterous, hateful demands, and if they get criticized for it, they claim islamophobia. Islamic culture is a problem that needs to get solved.

To the original question. It doesn't matter if Britain has more Muslims than Jews. By the same logic, we should enact everything the BNP demands as there are more Christians than Muslims in GB.

Religion is not culture. Arab Muslims have a completely different culture from Iranian Muslims or Indonesian Muslims.

Also, to apply the views of a fringe party which doesn't even legally exist anymore to the majority is a completely illogical analogy. And to compare them to religious community is a tragedy of the intellect.

Islamophobia is such a buzzword today that I honestly don't know whether to agree with you or not. If criticizing Islam makes one an islamophobe, then I guess I am one. If criticizing Crooked Hillary makes me sexist, then I guess I am one.

Well, what's the difference between Islamaphobia and Antisemitism? Why didn't you react the same way to my use of both words? I smell the repugnant odour of indoctrination through misinformation emanating from your post.

The Palestinians are the ones against a two-state solution. They (not all, but many, especially those in power) believe Israeli's are apes and pigs, and do not believe the state should exist. Furthermore, "institutional segregation" is bullshit. Muslims have all the rights of Jews except for being required to serve. There are Arabs in Parliament. Israel is not an apartheid state. Period.

I'm not talking about Palestine or any solutions. I believe that the Palestinian Authority is under pressure from extremist and terrorist elements such as Hamas, which do not represent the vast majority of the opinions of the general populace.

How can you believe that Palestinians believe that Israelis are apes and pigs?? Don't be so ignorant. Most Palestinians simply want peace and the same basic rights as Israelis.

They do; no matter what you say, deporting millions of Jews is not just anti-Zionist; it is anti-Semitic.

I agree with this statements. What are you trying to prove?

I assume this Ken chap is Muslim. To answer your question - no, opposition to a Muslim is not Islamophobia. Saying Palestinian nationalists need to be deported would be Islamophobia. No one did that as far as I know, so stfu. This is like saying people are racist for despising/arguing with Obama.

1. No he isn't Muslim. As mind-blowing as it may be to you, not every person who cares about the plight of the Palestinian people is Muslim.
2. Criticising a state's policy towards it's neigbours should not come at the cost of one's political career. Nor should it be a shameful thing to talk about. Think Turkey.
3. Nobody said Jews need deporting anywhere.

Criticizing Islam doesn't make you an islamophobe, I criticize all the time christianity and it's not like I'm being christianophobic. But saying stuff like: "Islamic culture is a problem that needs to get solved." is islamophobic.

In the same manner that Antisemitism is fear/hatred of Jews rather than Judaism, then Islamophobia is fear/hatred of Muslims rather than Islam.

And since you mentioned GOP rednecks some time ago. I don't support racists and homophobes regardless of religion. But the KKK and Westboro Baptist Church don't get support from anywhere. Nobody likes them. They don't have any power. Islamist hate preachers have lots of power because of progressive pro-multiculture enablers who say that we need to tolerate Islamic culture and its barbarism to avoid being islamophobic.

It's not that they're necessarily more popular. They just make good headlines. Who wants to read news about boring moderate preachers and ministers?

extremist preachers are the ones responsible for radicalization in europe

Very true. But it's the governments' fault because they didn't control or regulate all the immigrants to integrate them properly when they came. Now they're the poorest in European societies and turn to extremism to fuel their anger at the state.

It's not that they're necessarily more popular. They just make good headlines. Who wants to read news about boring moderate preachers and ministers?

Fine, but the moderate majority should make their voices heard that they don't want the extremists anywhere near them. They could name and shame them if necessary. Also they should make it heard that they don't support treating Islamists with kid gloves to avoid being called racists.

I re-read your first post and I am a bit confused. Do you propose deporting/relocating all Jews from Israel or only Zionists? Also, you kind of hinted that the proposal is bad but then you said that it's islamophobia to criticize its proponents.

Religion is not culture. Arab Muslims have a completely different culture from Iranian Muslims or Indonesian Muslims.

They all hate / have a strong dislike for gays. Why? Shouldn't something be done about it?

At the start you talked about Labour in a bad way. I'm guessing you're a Tory supporter ?

Islamic culture is a problem that needs to get solved.

Ja! Ve needz a final zolution to za Izlam problem!

I re-read your first post and I am a bit confused. Do you propose deporting/relocating all Jews from Israel or only Zionists? Also, you kind of hinted that the proposal is bad but then you said that it's islamophobia to criticize its proponents.

I do not support the forced deportation/relocation of any Jews from Israel/Palestine, even Zionists. I am trying to point out that the Zionist lobby in Britain is trying to control British politicians even though they make up less than 0.1% of the population.
I was using the word Islamophobia to check the use of the word Antisemitism. Unfortunately the point I was trying to make was proven correct by the reaction to my use of the word.
I pointed out that if criticising the actions of the State of Israel in Palestine is Antisemitism, then criticising the critics of Zionism may as well be called Islamophobic.
This pointed out the blatant bias of most people.

As an American Jew, I say this:

I want a 2-state solution. Both peoples have equal claim to that land. Pushing one group completely out of the way is unacceptable, regardless of Israeli or Palestinian.

But the problem is that the borders of those two nations would be a nightmare. And similarly to the partition of India and Pakistan, certain people will be "on the wrong side of the border", and people will be forced to leave. And some will die as they try to leave.

But, the Palestinian region of Gaza has not shown its itself to be a reliable, stable nation which is willing to work with its neighbor Israel. Gaza has launched rockets, Israel has bombed possible terrorist targets. Both side says they are doing the right thing, and thousands are dead on both sides.

I think that Jews deserve a state in Palestine as much as the Palestinians do. Deporting one group out will not work.

Now as an American, I can't say much on the political issues brought up in the starting post. But let me tell you this:
I'm fine if you critique Israel. Both sides have done terrible things.
Saying Israelis have no right to have their own state is the same as me saying such for Palestinians.

In the US, we have Jews like me who are willing to do a 2-state solution, Jews who are a bit more moderate, and Jews like the ones mentioned in your first post.

By the way, I did not know you were a Muslim, Cardwell.

And similarly to the partition of India and Pakistan, certain people will be "on the wrong side of the border", and people will be forced to leave. And some will die as they try to leave.

That doesn't really make a big difference; the region already has a massive refugee crisis.

But, the Palestinian region of Gaza has not shown its itself to be a reliable, stable nation which is willing to work with its neighbor Israel.

Yep. Literally under Hamas control right now. Obviously, it's a positive feedback loop because of the situation Gaza's in, but that also makes the safest move for Israel to just carry on their current program.


You also can't just analyze the current situation without considering the history since 1947.

there shouldnt be a two state solution

only a one state solution

after all the jews need more land to live in

palestinians had their shot for a deal

now there is no time for mercy

why show mercy to terrorists?

Edited 5/5/2016 22:40:40

Ja! Ve needz a final zolution to za Izlam problem!

You sound just like that Jew-hating hothead Knyte. It's almost as if you were the same person.

I do not support the forced deportation/relocation of any Jews from Israel/Palestine, even Zionists. I am trying to point out that the Zionist lobby in Britain is trying to control British politicians even though they make up less than 0.1% of the population.

You have yet to prove that Zionists control the media. Firing people who propose mass deportations of innocent civilians is only normal in Western democracies, no need to bring up islamophobia. And if this Ken chap isn't a Muslim, how is firing him an example of islamophobia?

I was using the word Islamophobia to check the use of the word Antisemitism. Unfortunately the point I was trying to make was proven correct by the reaction to my use of the word.

Criticism of Islam is not islamophobia per se. But if someone says that we should deport all Jews from Israel against their will, then there is a good chance that the person is an anti-Semite.

I pointed out that if criticising the actions of the State of Israel in Palestine is Antisemitism, then criticising the critics of Zionism may as well be called Islamophobic.

Criticizing the state of Israel is not anti-Semitism ofc. But forcible removal of Jews or even Zionists that have not demonstrably committed crimes is hateful or indifferent towards Jews.

Never thought I'd say this, but +1 The Lord

Just a note here, you go on talking, but anti-semite is one of the most wrongly wielded words in English. Semitic folk is a group of folk that holds within it mostly Arabs, and some Israelites. There are Jews who are not Semitic, and there are Semites who are not Jews (in truth, the great majority of them aren't, they're Muslim and Christian).

If you mean anti-Jew or anti-Israel, just say so.

Linguistics doesn't follow predictable etymological patterns. We regularly encounter words like "inflammable" tha don't mean what you think they'd mean if you dissect them.

Historically, the word "anti-Semitic" has been used to specifically indicate opposition to Jews. It's not "wrongly wielded"- it just doesn't follow the etymological patterns you're trying to impose.