i did not call everything you like "socialist" stop whining and being mad for nothing. I just said what you were actually defending here was part of the socialist ideology (the most wrecked one) which is right: you are against meritocracy, people being paid as much as workers whereas they studied a lot (Master degree) and struggled to achieve it (high selection). They deserve their salary, unless you want to live in a Marxist World, where everyone is paid the same.

They deserve what people are willing to pay them, not any artificially inflated wage paid for by tax payers. Even ignoring that, they've done nothing to deserve a higher wage, just gone to a college, they're providing little real worth to their customers (the American folk). They are providing a real good value to their employers though (the government) so maybe that's why they're paid such insane wages for such a crap job.

They deserve a higher wage, because as I said earlier they have a higher education and had to pass through a high selection, it is totally justified. Sadly they are anyway low paid, so I do not get why you are arguing about it socialist texan boy.
Anyway, I noticed you said that in the US, "standards were lowered", you have to ask yourself why, perhaps it is because less and less people want to become teachers, instead of criticizing a profession that you know nothing about, judging them behind your screen with a totally extreme Marxist biased view, you should see how this profession is one of the hardest one, and that's why fewer and fewer people are choosing this profession, and this is why perhaps in the US they are lowering "the standards". And to motivate people to work as teachers they have to pay them more. Frankly it is perfectly understandable: why people would get a Master degree, pass through a high selection, for getting paid nothing and furthermore sent to the worst places? What are the incentives here?

Edited 5/12/2016 21:46:20

So a man with a doctorate degree should be able to make a huge wage even if he does nothing?

Standards in the US were lowered because most of the teachers couldn't pass them, not to attract more folk.

why people would get a Master degree

You only need a Bachelor degree.

pass through a high selection

The selection process isn't particularly hard, the teachers are just not that smart.

for getting paid nothing

A physics teacher in Texas can get paid 90,000 per year, nothing my arse. That's 40,000 more than the normal bloke.

furthermore sent to the worst places

Worst for the students maybe, not for the teachers.

What are the incentives here

Thousands of dollars for possibly nothing, most likely a bad job if anything at all. Summers off, holidays off, they earn more than many scientistific professions, good health insurance plans, pensions and huge amounts of job security.

why a man owning a doctorate would do nothing compared to others, explain me this?
Not my fault if you "lowered your standards", in France it is constantly increased, it used to be a bachelor before now it is a master degree, but wages are not higher though anyway, the examination is getting harder and harder, and still a teacher is paid as much as someone with no education working in a factory, tell me how is this logical? Only Marxists such as you are happy to see low workers are paid as much as a teacher/professor.

Again you are pissed by your own teachers obviously, and generalizing it to the whole population of professors/teachers is really idiotic and childish.

Your reasoning is that if a bloke goes and gets a degree, he should be paid by the government regardless of him doing work, good work or bad work.

Only Marxists such as you are happy to see low workers are paid as much as a teacher/professor.

Only Socialists such as you are happy with folk who do a bad job, and a immoral job, should get lots of money just because they bought a degree a while back.

Someone who gets a master degree, persevered for years, and also passed a harsh examination, I do not get how he could not do a good work.
You are basically against meritocracy, and supporting a Marxist utopian policy.
And you are pissed by your teachers so you are generalizing (as usual since you do it also for other threads), I often wonder why you are so prone to generalise. Generalisations are seldom if ever true and are usually utterly inaccurate.

And yes, teachers in America do a bad and immoral job. I've already covered the immorality of it, but come on, 14% of the US population is illiterate because of these folk. And they're already paid as much as many scientists, and have great benefits.

Edited 5/12/2016 22:36:17

it is not only because of "these folk", actually it has been proved education from parents contributed for the best part of it, if you had a bad education from your parents, it will follow you the rest of your life. Of course and fortunately there are exceptions.

anonym, did you miss "there are exceptions" per chance?

So you admit that the education system is so bad that they can't fix poverty, or illiteracy, without help from the parents that the system alienates from the children while making the children hate any kind of education including education from the parents, and only a self-educating populace independent of the government can successfully fix these problems?

Well, state worshipping atheism is disgusting. Normal atheism? It's not that bad.

in France you can stop freely at middle school (with the consent of your parents of course), and major I never said education could not fix poverty or illiteracy, but sadly parents have also a huge responsibility in the failure of their children.
Anonym, if you do not like "public schools", you have the private ones, and even islamic ones in Europe, your family has the choice of your education, so if you are not happy ask them to change. People complaining constantly and whining for no reason, this is really pathetic tbh.

Well sorry bud, but atheists are a sizable chunk of the population, so you're outgunned, by at least a AK in a shed in Texas. Good news though, the others while particularly violent, ironically love disarming themselves, so you should have less trouble with them.

Yeah the main part is on the parents. Public schools are just mostly useless stuffs, if they're mandatory or just bad at their job, but if they're paid for non-coercively , I don't see a problem with them.

Again overgeneralizing, all public schools aren't bad, it is a rather simplistic view again major.

Panda, if they can't change the life of a child in a positive manner, they aren't good.

And Juq your comment about "researchers" and "scientists" getting less paid, I would like to get your source first before commenting it.

I never said that, all I said was that a teacher probably should not be as much paid as a scientist.

Snark leaderboard:

Koala: 28

1*do you think that is normal too? (pretentious)
2*Easy to criticize others when you do not know what you are talking about. (insult, pretentious)
3*I fear your comment is wrong here. (pretentious)
4*Admit it Major what you are advocating is pure socialism (pretentious, false)
5*generalizing is rather stupid and childish. (insult)
6*If you paid attention I said I was not socialist (false, pretentious)
7*I am actually quite unaffiliated picking from different ideologies (circular argument, also false from my happenings)
8*your comments show that you are (unconsciously) supporting the worst socialist policies, since you are against meritocracy. (circular and unsupported claim)
9*You are constantly contradicting yourself here. (unsupported)
10*try to respect your own ideology please. (pretentious)
11*Again Major your opinion is purely irrelevant here since it is not objective at all, the fact that your own teachers supposedly suck, does not mean every teacher sucks. Your argument is weak here. (insult, unsupported, also doesn't know what "opinion" means, it's French word, not even English...)
12*you change your mind like a wind vane aren't you? (pretentious)
13*you are defending a wrecked socialist policy (insult or false (can't be both))
14*stop whining and being mad for nothing. (insult)
15*They deserve their salary, unless you want to live in a Marxist World, where everyone is paid the same. (false narrow)
16*Sadly they are anyway low paid, so I do not get why you are arguing about it socialist texan boy. (unsupported, pretentious)
17*you have to ask yourself why (pretentious)
18*instead of criticizing a profession that you know nothing about, judging them behind your screen with a totally extreme Marxist biased view, you should see how this profession is one of the hardest one (insult, pretentious, unsupported)
19*Not my fault if you "lowered your standards" (pretentious)
20*how is this logical? (pretentious)
21*Again you are pissed by your own teachers obviously (unsupported, probably false)
22*Only Marxists such as you are happy to see low workers are paid as much as a teacher/professor. (unsupported claim now passed off as axiom, pretentious)
23*generalizing it to the whole population of professors/teachers is really idiotic and childish. (insult, unsupported)
24*You are basically against meritocracy, and supporting a Marxist utopian policy. (unsupported, probably false)
25*And you are pissed by your teachers so you are generalizing (as usual since you do it also for other threads), I often wonder why you are so prone to generalise. Generalisations are seldom if ever true and are usually utterly inaccurate. (unsupported, insult, pretentious)
26*People complaining constantly and whining for no reason, this is really pathetic tbh. (insult)
27*Again overgeneralizing, all public schools aren't bad, it is a rather simplistic view again major. (pretentious, unsupported, insult)
28*Mmmh, let me check these points you made would you. (pretentious, probably (whether known or not) false)

Smedley: 16

1*Right now they use anti-economic freedom policies (buzzwording, passing off a claim as an axiom)
2*Screw off, Sheriff of Nottingham. (insult)
3*Screw off (insult)
4*you're trying to destroy the economy (probably false, so insult)
5*You're advocating for the folk with the most guns to be the ruler of the world, you violent prick. (probably false, so insult)
6*You are advocating for the most violent folk with the most weapons to rule society.(ditto)
7*The poor have benefited greatly from these jobs and enjoy a higher standard of living than in most countries, why give them more money that they haven't made, when they don't need it?
8*so you've been funneling billions of dollars for decades into a education system , encouraging every person ever to get into college by propaganda and giving folk money to get a college degree, and now that your education system that has taken huge amounts of money (immorally and through force) and brought you a result that you absolutely hate (false)
9*are you going to admit that maybe throwing huge amounts of money at the problem while demonizing blue collar labor is a bad idea? (pretentious)
10*But you don't pay attention, guess that public schooling really worked out for you, huh? (pretentious)
11*just screw off you dumbarse. (insult, unsupported)
12*So a man with a doctorate degree should be able to make a huge wage even if he does nothing? (pretentious)
13*So a man with a doctorate degree should be able to make a huge wage even if he does nothing? (passing off a claim as an axiom)
14*come on, 14% of the US population is illiterate because of these folk. (false, narrowminded)[/i]
15*So you admit that the education system is so bad that they can't fix poverty, or illiteracy, without help from the parents that the system alienates from the children while making the children hate any kind of education including education from the parents, and only a self-educating populace independent of the government can successfully fix these problems? (pretentious)
16the others while particularly violent, ironically love disarming themselves, so you should have less trouble with them. (insult/unsupported)

japan97: 3

1*I'm a junior in BC calc, and expecting a 5 on the test(I cleared the bar by 15 AP points on the practice exam with no review) (some kind of American bragging)
2*socialist propaganda, excuse me? (pretentious)
3*you can shut your mouth (insult)

Ocular: 2

1*Teachers really ought to be payed more here in the US. They have difficult jobs that are extremely valuable for the community, yet they get treated like shit. (basing a claim on an axiom)
2*She didn't get paid well at all. (probably false, as later proven)

Edited 5/13/2016 01:09:20

X, governments are monopolies of force, they have a surplus of arms, equipment and soldiers ready to fight, and therefore I do not see how it's a false statement.

None of that is intrinsic to governments, several governments don't have all this stuff you just said.