Semice is a gud boi! He dindu nuffin

Keeping your clan secure is not an open decision. It's about as much of a choice as Obama creating a website where anyone can control the American nuclear arsenal or monitor the activities of the CIA. You're knowingly transferring ownership every time you give someone else Manager Rights- there's even a warning, so you can't use the "I'm naive"/"I didn't know" defense at this point.

knyte, you are fully aware that moral boundaries and legality are not the same thing.
An act may be morally wrong, but officially illegal, or an act may be technically legal, but morally wrong.

Moral rights and wrongs are not determined by law, they are determined by the populace. And it is quite clear that the vast majority of people see that gaining someone's trust in order to destroy their pride for a laugh is not a laughing matter.

I dread to think where the boundaries would be otherwise.

It's not an either/or. Semice is a callous asshole. Fizzer's clan management system is broken.

But the majority of the fault here lies with Colonel, Kazuki, Panda, and all the other people who made the ultimate call. And until we acknowledge that, until we take action, this is going to keep happening.

You don't blame the LEGO company when someone ignores the warning labels and lets their infant play with small LEGOs and choke to death. Yes, there's a flaw in LEGOs and it sucks that you can choke to death if you swallow them. Yes, it's easy to trust LEGOs because of how friendly there are. But you're the one who decided to invite the vampire into his home.

you are fully aware that moral boundaries and legality are not the same thing.

It's not a question of moral boundaries or legality. Legality's not even what I'm appealing to.

I'm pointing out that the moral/legal/etc. responsibility here lies with the party that had the most power to prevent this action- and that's you/Recoil/whoever else had MR, Colonel.

If I had decided to give in to your request and put you in charge of the entire strategic side of The Lost Wolves, I'd be at much more fault than you for destroying the clan's hopes of being remotely competitive. Hell, when I accepted your request to join The Lost Wolves, I also took responsibility for any damage that could result to TLW as a consequence of your questionable history and behavior (fortunately, that didn't occur). By keeping Semice in TLW, in charge of TLW's strategic side, and on our CL8 roster, I'm also taking responsibility for the consequences of that calculated decision and acknowledging that I can't blame all the consequences away on less-than-ideal circumstances.

That's how leadership works- when you make a decision, you also take responsibility for the consequences instead of deciding to push them onto someone else.

That's not intrinsically a question of morality or legality- it's how you attribute responsibility.

Edited 5/18/2016 20:53:54

Just so that nobody is being deceived by knyte's cruel words here, let me share a quote from Semice's "undercover alt":

"I am very grateful to you, my King, for granting me manager rights. It will be a great help in working with Kira to make sure that the clan is working orderly"

Edited 5/18/2016 20:57:23

If I had decided to give in to your request and put you in charge of the entire strategic side of The Lost Wolves, I'd be at much more fault than you for destroying the clan's hopes of being remotely competitive. Hell, when I accepted your request to join The Lost Wolves, I also took responsibility for any damage that could result to TLW as a consequence of your questionable history and behavior (fortunately, that didn't occur). That's how leadership works- when you make a decision, you also take responsibility for the consequences instead of deciding to push them onto someone else.

The vast majority of people on this game would agree with me that it is not irresponsible to entrust someone who builds your trust for four months, and is then given a mandate by the clan members to run things in a certain capacity, as a manager of your clan. And still the fault for this is not to be deferred to others.

Anyhow, I don't want to get into a debate here. God bless.

This is for all the people who have been affected by Semicedevine's behaviour.
For The Lost Wolves, The Royal Falcons, Bakkah Mekkah, La Grande Armee, CORP, and Royal Entente.

https://warlight.uservoice.com/forums/77051-warlight-features/suggestions/13892511-ban-semicedevine-permanently

That is as equally childish and pathetic as Semice hacking RE..

^^^ No duh. No one's contesting that Semice wanted these Manager Rights or actively deceived you to obtain them. No one's contesting that these actions are abusive, reprehensible, and ultimately harmful to the Warlight community.

But it's your responsibility as a leader to either make better calls than falling for such effortless deception or acknowledge that you ultimately held the levers of power and could've very, very easily prevented this.


Again, it's like vampires. You have the choice as to whether or not let them into your own home. And as the leader of the Royal Entente, making easy security decisions like that is very much within the realm of your responsibility.

vast majority of people on this game

And that's exactly the problem. You guys are making it all too easy to hijack clans and essentially giving Semice your informed consent to take over the clan.

Like I said, it takes literally no effort to prevent these hijackings. If you want to bet that this sort of outcome is just natural, I'm down- I can easily prevent a hijack in The Lost Wolves for literally the entire remainder of Warlight's lifespan. I don't even have to actively think about it. Plat right above me can keep {101st} hijack-free for the same timeframe. Even Darklordio can secure DARKLORDS- it's already survived many hijacking attempts, because every single one of them ultimately needs your consent to succeed.

"But he had a silver tongue!"

It's like living in a world where you need to consent to theft or murder in order for them to happen, and then still playing the victim card after you knowingly decided to get shot in the face. It'd be a freaking utopia, honestly, if crime IRL were as easy to prevent as a hijacking on Warlight. And yet I suspect you'd still get screwed.

Just take some responsibility for once.

Edited 5/18/2016 21:03:56

I accept that it was a mistake to give the alt of Semicedevine MR. However, you are trying to pass the situation off as if I knew that he would inevitably take over.

He was popular within the clan, and I wanted someone to organise stuff such as RPCL whilst I was busy with some Education stuff in one month's time.

My point it that it could have happened to anybody, but I was targeted probably due to the fact that he resented that RE was rising to the top, even beating expectations in RPCL and he had, on two occasions prior, made statements which suggest that he had problems with us.

I was the target. I was exploited.

Blaming me for Semice's actions is the same as blaming a woman for rape because she called a plumber to fix he washing-machine who happened to be a rapist.

However, you are trying to pass the situation off as if I knew that he would inevitably take over.

You were at the very least aware of the risks and had plenty of information available to understand why spreading MR is a bad decision. Like you've pointed out, this was far from the first time a hijack's happened.

My point it that it could have happened to anybody

No it couldn't have. The attitude that you didn't ultimately make the call that led to the collapse of RE + that it's someone else's responsibility to fix/adapt to the problem is exactly why we're seeing these hijacks so often when- as the vast majority of clans demonstrate- they're not difficult at all to prevent.

Blaming me for Semice's actions is the same as blaming a woman for rape because she called a plumber to fix he washing-machine who happened to be a rapist.

I knew someone would eventually throw this at me.

The difference between you and a victim is that rape doesn't need the victim's consent to happen. On the other hand, you read a warning, had seen the consequences play out countless times before, and still chose to grant Semice the power to take over RE. It's like sending your bank details to a Nigerian scammer after reading a bunch of warnings telling you exactly why that's a bad idea.

You don't move on from problems like that by just trying to get the Nigerian scammers banned, even if you succeed in banning the largest ones. The biggest thing holding us back right now is your failure to acknowledge your own fault and try to fix it.

Edited 5/18/2016 21:18:50

The system does not need improving, one just needs to learn how the system works. To me it seems pretty fool-proof, but there are always gullible and easily deceived persons. None to blame than yourself. I think it is pretty clearly stated what "Transfer manager rights" mean. Nothing against the rules! Read TOS. All you can do is learn from this.

No, you are wrong, it could not happen to anybody! Stop flaming, uservoice´ing. Direct this to Fizzer, but probably you get a negative answer! And watch your words - few clicks away from report!

Edited 5/18/2016 21:16:56

You were at the very least aware of the risks and had plenty of information available to understand why spreading MR is a bad decision. Like you've pointed out, this was far from the first time a hijack's happened.

Using words like "spreading" does not help your argument. It is a clear fallacy. I gave MR to ONE PERSON who happened to be the one person who wanted to hijack us. That is chance and is not the fault of the victim.

@ℳℛᐤƬrαńɋℰ✕: And you are?

Edited 5/18/2016 21:18:55

+1 Tranqex

For people who've never seen the "Manage or remove players" module before, here's what it says:



Be sure to only set players as a manager if you trust them 100%. Since they can do anything, they could even remove you from the clan if they wanted to take control.

It literally spells it out for you.

Edited 5/18/2016 21:21:52

Leave Semice alone. You can't blame him because of Royal's stupidity and everything Frizzer did is justified because he gave power back to the guy that bought the fucking clan. Thats life, you pay for something its yours.

Is the clan system perfect? fuck no. Is there a lot more that should be done to improve it? fuck yes,

Think Semice should be banned? fuck you

It's much more effective for the RP clan manager community (let's not pretend they're not consistently where these failures occur) to adopt some basic security practices.

Who's the guy that originally bought the clan, then?

For The Lost Wolves, The Royal Falcons, Bakkah Mekkah, La Grande Armee, CORP, and Royal Entente.

Eh...

Bakkah Mekkah, La Grande Armee

Both of those were by Cacao...

The Lost Wolves

...But Semice did it on the wolves four or so times.

Edited 5/18/2016 21:38:08

The Lost Wolves get hijacked

- Zephyrum, taking over after hijacking the clan from Relm, gives me MR with the expectation that I would remove his MR and take over the clan (and no real objections to the situation)

:D

We both saw that coming, didn't we? kek

But all is fine at the end, since that was the plan.

The best person to handle manager rights to is somebody whose never had manager rights before. They're usually filled with enough morale to handle it and stay loyal to the clan.

The second best is a person you know irl.

Third is a very good friend of yours.

Then the rest is more or less meaningless.

You honestly shouldn't trust anyone with MR you haven't really interacted with. It's not hard for wolves to put on sheep's clothing here.

Edited 5/18/2016 21:47:45

Stupidly gives Manager Rights to over a dozen people whom he absolutely shouldn't be trusting

You like to exaggerate things do you Knyte? I indeed gave MR to too many people and I recognized this was stupid, but it was certainly not a dozen of people, it was actually closer to 6, and I did not make that much mistake about recruitment or people I trusted excepted with The Lone Wolf (Semice's alt). After all Knyte, you were also part of the people whom I gave MR, and you did a good job. If I gave MR to people it was indeed because it was a time when I was more busy and I was desperately looking for new managers, CORP was basically a new clan and we needed to find people willing to help us to grow this clan, hence the reason about why I gave MR to so many people.

I have also to agree with Colonel here, although they were not enough careful when they gave MR to people, all the fault should not be devolved only to RE's managers. You tend to minimize greatly Semice's fault (since he tried to hijack many other clans in the past with some success), and I suppose you minimize it because you are yourself biased as you are helping the Wolves to improve (something that I respect totally) but Semice's action is going to tarnish Wolves reputation even more than before sadly.