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Why the US will lose the war on terror: 5/21/2016 00:11:04


Major General Smedley Butler
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^ First off, Smedly, I really hope you did time in the military otherwise this statement was highly hypocritical

It's not hypocritical at all. You want to send folk to war but don't want to fight a war. You're the only one being hypocritical.
Why the US will lose the war on terror: 5/21/2016 03:01:56


(deleted)
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Please quote the part of this debate where I said " I want to send Americans off to war ".

Who said I wouldn't fight in a war? Did I ever say that?. Thats why your an illogical debater, you assume wayyyyyyyy to much. I would fight for a cause I believed in. If Russia nuked Paris tomorrow I would sign on to serve my country as they help our allies. Of course I would be nervous and frightened but I'm more scared of losing the freedom I love so much then fighting for it. Btw, I've got basic JMT training so I do know a lot of basic combat skills and I do know what some of those guys go through, it's hell. Which is exactly why I will always preach that war must be the last option.

Edited 5/21/2016 03:07:48
Why the US will lose the war on terror: 5/21/2016 03:52:12


Major General Smedley Butler
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You support the interventions in Afghanistan and more intervening in places around the world. That is wanting to send folk to war. And no, you don't know what they go through. You've never been under artillery fire, you've never seen your friends be blown to bits in front of you, and you've never had lice eat you alive while you sit in your filth in your trench. And you propose sending folk to do those things, to "defend" freedom.

You aren't using war as a last resort, you're using it as a first resort, being pro-Afghan invasion, pro-Beograd bombings, pro-gulf war, pro-Mashriq war, etc.
Why the US will lose the war on terror: 5/21/2016 04:09:34


(deleted)
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I will now proceed to rip your arguments, beware


1: Once again your assuming too much. Never said I supported the gulf war or Mashriq war so please, actually think before you type.


2: Please tell me what else could be done about Afghanistan? I like to hear your grand solution



3: I said I knew parts, not all. And please, I know it's second nature, but please refrain from lecturing me about what I do and do not know, thank you.



4: Where else do I support intervention, based on what I have said?
Why the US will lose the war on terror: 5/21/2016 06:02:02


adrian waco
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what would be interesting to counter islamic terrorism is simply to do nothing

you had the leader of al qaeda telling all the forces in the middle east to unite or they will all die. the guy even mentioned that if the US invaded the middle east through ground forces, they could all unite and fight the western forces

he pretty much said that the should expel the western forces out and resume to fight each other once more

funny stuff isnt it

lets implement a policy of doing nothing in the ME and see what it does for us
Why the US will lose the war on terror: 5/21/2016 17:40:02


Major General Smedley Butler
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Never said I supported the gulf war or Mashriq war

The Mashriq war is the war against ISIS, and you most likely support the Gulf War.

2: Please tell me what else could be done about Afghanistan? I like to hear your grand solution

Not invading it because it presented no danger to the US, it's freedoms, and invading it would only make the situation in Afghanistan worse.

4: Where else do I support intervention, based on what I have said?

I remember you talking about how bombing Serbia and Milosevic was necessary because of the ethnic cleansing in Kosova(which was proven to be false).
Why the US will lose the war on terror: 5/21/2016 18:00:39


(deleted)
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1: " I remember you talking about how bombing Serbia and Milosevic was necessary because of the ethnic cleansing in Kosova(which was proven to be false). "

^ You know, for someone who was just lecturing me about how horrible military intervention is and trying to exercise your supposed knowledge on average day military life, you have certainly failed to see the difference between a bombing campaign and an actual ground war.
Go read some books on modern tactics and histories, THERE IS A MASSIVE DIFFERENCE between dropping some bombs and fighting a war. I did support the bombing campaign, that does not contradict my disapproval of ground forces intervention. Also, I think the thousands of dead Muslims and there families might have some issues with you saying the genocide was " false " unless you have some top secret information from Pentagon papers you stole? Along with ' proof ' that Bush did 9/11 and that the illuminati are currently masters of the world banking system?



2: " The Mashriq war is the war against ISIS, and you most likely support the Gulf War. "


^ " Most likely " My God, my debate teacher would shoot herself if she saw that statement Lol. Don't ever assume that I " Most likely " support anything. And for the record,I did not support Operation Iraqi Freedom. Also, I did not know they had a name for the war against ISIS.
Why the US will lose the war on terror: 5/21/2016 18:19:38


Major General Smedley Butler
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You know, for someone who was just lecturing me about how horrible military intervention is and trying to exercise your supposed knowledge on average day military life, you have certainly failed to see the difference between a bombing campaign and an actual ground war.

You know, for a violent warmongering psychopath, you seem to forget that there is more than one side in a war, and bombing one to shit is still fighting a war and killing lots of folk.

Also, I think the thousands of dead Muslims and there families might have some issues with you saying the genocide was " false " unless you have some top secret information from Pentagon papers you stole

http://www.iraqwar.org/germanreport.htm

Also, I was referring to the first gulf war.
Why the US will lose the war on terror: 5/21/2016 18:38:28


(deleted)
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" You know, for a violent warmongering psychopath, you seem to forget that there is more than one side in a war, and bombing one to shit is still fighting a war and killing lots of folk. "

^ Lol I'm gonna enjoy this one

1: Lets see what the Wikipedia definition is?

"Psychopathy (/saɪˈkɒpəθi/), also known as—though sometimes differentiated from—sociopathy (/soʊsiˈɒpəθi/), is traditionally defined as a personality disorder characterized by enduring antisocial behavior, diminished empathy and remorse, and disinhibited or bold behavior."


^ Yeah......that definitely is me. You should be a doctor, considering you diagnosed me over the internet in such a quick manner. My goodness, please make your insults at least relevant to the conversation. An example. Since we are talking about war and intervention, you could call me " LBJ " or " Reaganite " considering they were both renowned interventionists.



2: Todays definition of war refers to a formal declaration of one nation upon another. If no such declaration exists between two nations, it Is characterised as a " Conflict "

Edited 5/21/2016 18:48:38
Why the US will lose the war on terror: 5/21/2016 18:46:48


Major General Smedley Butler
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Definition of war:
a state of armed conflict between different nations or states or different groups within a nation or state.



Also on you being a immoral psychopath:

"Psychopathy (/saɪˈkɒpəθi/), also known as—though sometimes differentiated from—sociopathy (/soʊsiˈɒpəθi/), is traditionally defined as a personality disorder characterized by enduring antisocial behavior, diminished empathy and remorse, and disinhibited or bold behavior."

You seem to have little to no remorse for the thousands killed in Afghanistan by the US. Especially since you also have empathy for the tens of thousands that will be killed if the US stays in the Middle East instead of leaving and ending the conflict right then and there.

Edited 5/21/2016 18:47:15
Why the US will lose the war on terror: 5/21/2016 18:58:15


(deleted)
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Once again, you are assuming. I value life no matter who it is ( Except Nancy Pelosi lol bitches be cray cray ) I have great remorse, you just didn't see it because you simply didn't specifically ask any questions. You were content on rattling away on rhetoric without actually thinking about asking me about a certain point.
If you remember, I wanted to know how you would have handled the Afghan conflict when you expressed disapproval of my own view. Inquiry is the basis of human communication. If your implying that I enjoy seeing human life terminate, you have shown a rather barbaric part of yourself.
Why the US will lose the war on terror: 5/21/2016 20:22:13


Major General Smedley Butler
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You support/supported the invasion of Afghanistan knowing that it has had incredibly detrimental effects on not just Afghanistan but on the region as a whole, and has achieved little to nothing in the way of ending the war on terror. This means that you would rather the folk killed in this invasion still be dead from the invasion rather than be alive from a non-invasion. This shows a awful lack of empathy.
Why the US will lose the war on terror: 5/21/2016 20:30:30


(deleted)
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Al-Qaeda in the middle east has drastically been reduced because of that invasion. In fact, we pulled out way too quickly and that is what created the vacuum. Same with Iraq. Just because you support an action that involves sacrifice of an entity does not mean you condon it. Just because you eat meat doesn't mean you activity revel in the death of cows? Or if you're vegetarian, just because you eat salads doesn't mean you like watching plants die?

Edited 5/21/2016 20:31:01
Why the US will lose the war on terror: 5/21/2016 21:04:44


Жұқтыру
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that's actually pretty much what I believe except for the moral part. Governments are not moral, people are.


If NATO is not moral, as you agreed, what makes you think that they're at all trying to do anything significantly unpragmatic, like legitimately keeping world peace?

So what your saying is you don't like America intervening unless you think we should.....interesting


What I'm saying is, America doesn't do the right thing - it does the strategic, pragmatic thing, like saving its big base and petrolier in Iraq, also known as Kuwait. Otherwise, these wars would definitely have priority - Rwandan genocide, Eritrean-Ethiopian border war, giving food.

But I'm not saying that America should be in more wars, I'm saying that the wars that it's in are not for anything other than pragmatism.

Yeah great policy, too bad it was just as expensive in human lives as actual fighting might have been.


Nonresistance will rarely kill more than resistance. Abstract example#1: A wants to kill B. A kills B, if B does not retaliate. -1 life there.

Abstract example#2: A tries to kill B, but B retaliates. They both deathly wound each other. -2 life. Or maybe B kills A without any problems, but it's still no better than example#1, the outcome's the same.

You might say example#3: B retaliates and kills A, saving the lives that otherwise A would have killed as well. But you never know that, and in the grand scheme of things, folk aren't sociopaths. In the Second World War, originally, Himmler had his soldiers play executioner role as well, and shoot folk that they found in Russia - Jews/Yids, boroughkings, random killings, and others. But this proved a great psychologic toll on it, some folk cracked. Shell shock. Mutinies. And so the gassing lorries were serviced, so that they wouldn't see the faces, and the horror of what they were doing so much.

In supplement, you almost never know that you will be saving more lives if you kill someone, especially in polit.

First off, not very nice. I am an intelligent human being who has made my opinion based off of years of study and thought.


Ok, I'm sorry, but you really seem to have a thought that polit is like in Warlight diplomacies - that alliances are always honoured, that countries try to do the right thing, that declaring war for land will always be seen as heinous. That's not what real national governments care about.

THERE IS A MASSIVE DIFFERENCE between dropping some bombs and fighting a war.


Not really. Dropping some bombs is generally safer for one side, kills more civilians as a proportion, that's pretty much it. Both needlessly kill folk.

I did support the bombing campaign, that does not contradict my disapproval of ground forces intervention.


You can't call yourself anti-war and then be for-war. You can at most, say that you're mostly anti-war.

Al-Qaeda in the middle east has drastically been reduced because of that invasion.


No...that wasn't even America's goal, you're probably thinking about the Taliban. And now there's other Islamic extremist groups there, don't worry, though, and now trying to hurt or bend Middle Asia and Russia to its will through heroin fabrication in bulk, and sending "Kerry breadbaskets".

In fact, we pulled out way too quickly and that is what created the vacuum.


I think you've been mixed up with Libya, anyhow, I doubt that more American hellraising for the sake of hellraising would stabilise things.

Same with Iraq.


No, America is still in Iraq.

Just because you support an action that involves sacrifice of an entity does not mean you condon it.


It fully does. Your examples:

*If you eat meat, you condone the slaughter of cows.
*Vegetarians do not generally eat dead plants, but fruits and vegetables. Obviously, more plants dying would mean less food for them.
Why the US will lose the war on terror: 5/21/2016 21:07:31


(deleted)
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I appreciate your detailed response Juq but one opponent at a time lol.
Why the US will lose the war on terror: 5/21/2016 22:02:35


Major General Smedley Butler
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The Taliban (what the US fought in Afghanistan) is still in Afghanistan, and is still engaged in a civil war with anti-Taliban folk (used to be Northern Alliance, now it's the government in Kabul). Nothing has changed there, just a lot more dead, and a lot more folk who support the Taliban.

And Al-Qaeda still has about 40,000 operatives across the world, mainly in the Middle East.

Just because you support an action that involves sacrifice of an entity does not mean you condon it

If you were in 1941, and supported the German War against Russia, you would be supporting killing Russians. Same with Afghanistan and America.
Why the US will lose the war on terror: 5/21/2016 23:41:33


(deleted)
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Many Germans fooled by propaganda genuinely supported Barbarassa because they thought they needed living space. A lot didn't like that they were killing Russians, but they thought it necessary. Look, I will draw this debate to a close so there are no hard feelings because I can see your kinda getting worked up. I think your a very smart, well informed, student of experience. We have read the same things, looked at the same world history and watched the same world and yet, even though we have different opinions we can still hash it out like normal intelligent human beings. I have a feeling we will be the ones trying to keep the next generation sane.
Why the US will lose the war on terror: 5/22/2016 01:43:35


Жұқтыру
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I will draw this debate to a close since Juqtιrw is, I'm afraid of her wow smartness, it really scares me and makes me feel very dumb, even though I'm smart.
Why the US will lose the war on terror: 5/22/2016 02:02:19


(deleted)
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I was talking about Smedly but hey, if that type of arrogance makes you feel better, go right ahead lol. I really hope you weren't serious about that lol
Why the US will lose the war on terror: 5/22/2016 03:20:34


Жұқтыру
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Well, I am serious that you're not answering what I've said. I'm not a unruler like Smedley, I won't call you Earl of Nottingham or whatever he said.
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