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Posts 1 - 14 of 14   
Suspensions on 1v1 Ladder: 6/30/2016 00:49:28


Potatoe
Level 56
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https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=11488685 I'm in this game vs this player (https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=3861369196) Warlord, Now I looked into his profile and I saw this..

Last seen 8 days 17 hours ago
This player is currently suspended for violating WarLight's rules


Now since this player is suspended by the magical powers on warlight could the magical powers also remove the player from the ladder? Small detail but it makes no sense to have a suspended player on the Ladders. I got a game created from him 21 hours ago, I don't think that should've happened and there is no point to this at all.

Discuss.

Edited 6/30/2016 00:50:13
Suspensions on 1v1 Ladder: 6/30/2016 00:58:34


Benjamin628 
Level 59
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Suspensions can be less than 3 days, I disagree. If he's perm-banned, yes I agree.
Suspensions on 1v1 Ladder: 6/30/2016 01:07:12


Green Turtle 
Level 61
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I would not worry about this if I were you. He is at the bottom of the ladder and your game with him will mostly end with a boot win. Prediction: no change to your ladder score, with him in the ladder or not.
Suspensions on 1v1 Ladder: 6/30/2016 01:07:22


Hades
Level 62
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Perhaps vacation mode could be activated automatically for the duration of the suspension.
Suspensions on 1v1 Ladder: 6/30/2016 01:19:40


Richard Sharpe 
Level 59
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Nah, let house rating suffer. Additional punishment for being enough of a prat to get himself suspended.
Suspensions on 1v1 Ladder: 6/30/2016 01:28:25


Potatoe
Level 56
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Nah, let house rating suffer. Additional punishment for being enough of a prat to get himself suspended.


Although I understand that point it still makes no sense to have a player joined on the ladder while suspended being unable to join the ladder. I'm not a ladder expert but having a player that just gets booted all the time just decreases the rating of others overtime.

I just think if a player is suspended it should be a auto-boot from the ladder and let the current games be booted as a punishment as you say.. Though lets not make extra games which are pointless and as I say over-time actually decreases a persons rating.. I think I'm right on that.
Suspensions on 1v1 Ladder: 6/30/2016 13:15:22


Holdway
Level 61
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The problem with allowing a banned player to remain on the ladder and be booted from all of their games, is that everyone who has unexpired games with that player is also unfairly punished.

For example, if they had a rating of say 1850 prior to the ban, it is very unfair for a player with a rating of 1900 who beat them in a legitimate match, to have their win downgraded to a victory against a player of 1650 due to that person being forced to boot and lose, for arguaments sake, 200 points. It is even worse if you lost to a team with a good rating, only for them to be banned and have their rating plummet dragging your rating down with them.

It is furthermore equally unfair for the players getting the boot victories as it has the potential to artificially increase their rating.

The higher the rating of the player banned the bigger the negative effect it will have on the ladder. Maybe it doesn't matter a great deal if someone near the bottom is banned, but it would have a very negative and unfair result if someone who is top of a ladder is banned and then gives out free boot wins in all their games.
Suspensions on 1v1 Ladder: 6/30/2016 15:09:09


Hades
Level 62
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Yep, the've already been punished. Theres no point to them getting booted on the ladders and messing up the ratings of others. Also unfair on anyone in a team game with that person. Activating vacation mode for the duration of the suspension (unless its a permo) would solve this.
Suspensions on 1v1 Ladder: 6/30/2016 16:10:06


TBest 
Level 59
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+1 Holdway, I only have a small note

"The higher the rating of the player banned the bigger the negative effect it will have on the ladder. Maybe it doesn't matter a great deal if someone near the bottom is banned, but it would have a very negative and unfair result if someone who is top of a ladder is banned and then gives out free boot wins in all their games."

I disagree, it is just as bad, when it comes to the bottom of the ladder. The current rating system makes even wins ageist very low rated players drag you down. (which is the principle you point out) My point is that all unranker/new ladder players starts at the bottom. Hence if they encounter a free boot win due to suspension, their rating is held down. In fact even if they simply wins their rating is still held down. (Personally I have an extraordinary number of wins ageinst players more then 1k lower in rating then me, so I know the pain. My current plan is to wait until they, the WINS, expire, so I can get 1st)

Also,

"The problem with allowing a banned player to remain on the ladder and be booted from all of their games, is that everyone who has unexpired games with that player is also unfairly punished."
In my opinion this is the problem of the rating system, not allowing the players to remain. (this problem exist with boots too. Or anyone who wants to sandbag some other players can do this by simply surrendering lots of games.) If a win could never drag you down, things would be fine. But a simple fix to the symptom of the rating system.

As Plat says inactive players should be removed from the ladders. If you get a boot during picking -> Remove.

Edited 6/30/2016 16:10:54
Suspensions on 1v1 Ladder: 6/30/2016 17:13:09


The Dalek
Level 45
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Ah, warlord got suspended, that's nice. Only the second guy I have ever reported if I remember correctly.
Suspensions on 1v1 Ladder: 6/30/2016 17:27:17


Bayern München is the best!
Level 58
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Last seen 6 hours ago
That's what it says!
Suspensions on 1v1 Ladder: 6/30/2016 22:32:21


Potatoe
Level 56
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Yes, What is stopping him from trying to access Warlight Bayern? You are signed in but you are blocked from accessing Warlights games forums or anything really.. So you can try but you can't get in ;)

So him being available 6 hours ago only proves he is desperate to play his amazing 1v1 ladder game with me than him being unsuspended or able to play
Suspensions on 1v1 Ladder: 7/1/2016 06:03:00


Holdway
Level 61
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The reason the bans on higher rated players have a greater negative affect on the ladder than lower rated players is caused by the boot changing the result.

Lets take two scenario's, A, and B, where on average player A loses 90% of their games, and player B wins 90% of their games.

Both are banned and start booting. The boots create artificial results where player A and B lose matches they would otherwise have won. In 90% of the games player B would have won, so in those games the boots disrupt the ladders accuracy and have a negative impact on everyone participating. In 10% of the games they would have lost anyway. There is still a negative effect, but it is significantly reduced and doesn't have the same wide reaching impact on other ladder users.

Therefore for player A who would have lost 90% of their games regardless, most of the boots will not create the same level of unfairness.

Obviously a fix needs to deal with all standards on the ladder. I made the point as it is easy to think the effect is relatively minor due to most bans (at least that I am aware of) being on players fairly low down the ladder. If anyone in the top 5 of the ladder got banned then you were see a very significant effect to peoples ratings.
Suspensions on 1v1 Ladder: 7/1/2016 06:36:50


TBest 
Level 59
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"If anyone in the top 5 of the ladder got banned then you were see a very significant effect to peoples ratings."

Yes, but you are right for another resone then what you are arguing. Lets presuming that A and B never left the ladder, gets suspended and looses games forever. Their rating would rather quickly be the two lowest in the system. A boot win against either of them don't have to much impact. (For example removing my 4 first wins only gives me 4 more rating points) So since Bayeselo always recalculate the rating, the boot wins will have the same or very similar impact after some time. However, the real issue is that top tier player will have some unexpired wins and it is the beaten players who lost to A that will really suffer. In an extreme case, the A player who has beaten, say me, becomes the lowest ranked player.

Since I played with Bayeselo, lets assume I lost to Mister Kl @ 746 rating.
Before/Now I have 2172, after the loss I would have 2134.

Though in reality the impact will never be that big. Inactive players are removed after a while, (14 days, https://www.warlight.net/Forum/105924-suggestion-autoremove-players-booted ) So the max impact is maybe 15 points. (Since you had lost to the player in the first place too.) Basically even in a worst case the rating impact is not that huge. It may be significant, nevertheless.

Anyway, back on topic. Not removing suspended players is simply just stupid.
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