I don't like the idea to vote the unseeded Clans and sort them by this. It should be ranked by privious Seasons/Performances if possible.

You wouldnt vote by their strength. Much more you vote by impression of few matches with few members or even by by sympathies. E.g. I play against Blowfly I May get an other impression of 101st strength as if I play against Edge.

Some countable measure would be good. Average Ladder stats ...

Edited 12/16/2016 18:30:47

Or Just random. Don't make it too complicated.

Save you the work with that.

I would prefer to avoid ranking clans. It becomes hard because each clan does not know all the clans they are ranking and it becomes a crap shoot. And as much as I want to believe everyone will be honest when ranking clans, if how voting for CL templates has shown, it gets really strategic and not at all factual really fast. There is a built in incentive to lie and punish good clans when voting then to actually be truthful. That's why voting shouldn't be done.

You wouldnt vote by their strength. Much more you vote by impression of few matches with few members or even by by sympathies. E.g. I play against Blowfly I May get an other impression of 101st strength as if I play against Edge.

:D

101st i'm waiting on your call.

oh oups, messed sth up. Sry

No problem. I didn't took it for bad.

Edited 12/16/2016 21:11:52

oh oups, messed sth up. Sry

First off- great idea GE.

Also, additional seeding after 1-8 this season would be subjective no matter which way you cut it. So I say randomize it from there and if there's a group of death, so be it. Not even the big sports competitions are immune to that, and if we end up having one in S1, well it's gonna be interesting to watch / play.

yes and in the end you need to beat all except one to get in B anyway. :)

Edited 12/16/2016 22:14:43

I have not been on the forums much, as warlight is blocked at work and I mostly play via mobile now.


Any chance you can send out mail with the final rules? I want to read through and make sure I understand them all, without reading pages of posts.

Thanks!

We've been compiling a document(not final yet) of all rules which can be found @ - https://goo.gl/xT2dzg

After the template panel gives us a list of templates, we'll set up a chat game and go over everything a clan leader needs to keep in mind regarding CL9.

Edited 12/17/2016 05:11:25

I don't like the idea to vote the unseeded Clans and sort them by this. It should be ranked by privious Seasons/Performances if possible.

You wouldnt vote by their strength. Much more you vote by impression of few matches with few members or even by by sympathies. E.g. I play against Blowfly I May get an other impression of 101st strength as if I play against Edge.

Some countable measure would be good. Average Ladder stats ...

Ofc it wouldnt be perfect to vote, but way better than just to randomize.
Average ladder stats is difficult, how do you weight them, who do you take in (you do not know the roaster yet).

I would prefer to avoid ranking clans. It becomes hard because each clan does not know all the clans they are ranking and it becomes a crap shoot. And as much as I want to believe everyone will be honest when ranking clans, if how voting for CL templates has shown, it gets really strategic and not at all factual really fast. There is a built in incentive to lie and punish good clans when voting then to actually be truthful. That's why voting shouldn't be done.

You may vote a clan down, but this can be very risky for yourself, as you may get paired with this clan and another strong one. Ranking at least lowers the risk of getting all skilled unseeded in one group.

yes and in the end you need to beat all except one to get in B anyway. :)

Yeah, but there are a lot of games and warlight has some random factor in it.

There is no perfect methode to group or rank clans. But current situation is weird. Seeding some good + some "not so good" clans and on the other hand there are unseeded clans, which are at least able to beat all of them. We will see how it works...

yes and in the end you need to beat all except one to get in B anyway. :)

Also please note:
Slots of good players are ressources. If I am able to save slots of my best players at stage 1, I can use them at stage 2. For example:

Group - A: to easy, 1 good, us + crap
I only use enough slots of best players to get 2nd and to qualify for stage 2. Results: I have best players at stage 2.

Group - B: group of death, all good
I have to use my best players in order to qualify for stage 2 and there I have left only the worser part of my roaster.

So stage 1 may become very tactically (who do I need to get 2nd) and having unblanced groups is the worst thing one could have at stage 1... in the end luck may be the most critical thing to get promoted into B.

Edited 12/17/2016 09:33:00

Sure you can do it like this but this is also very risky. Would be funny if a clan gets not in the Playoffs because they underestimate another clan.

Also it is a but reguläres because you cant put a Player in 3 Spots in only one stage.

Sure it is not perfect right now. But what is perfect right from the beginning?

[is saying the HAWKS guy who is likely together with TJC in Group 4; imo the 2 strongest seeded Clans (at least the strongest Kombination you can get at the moment)]

Edited 12/17/2016 11:25:39

Also please note:
Slots of good players are ressources. If I am able to save slots of my best players at stage 1, I can use them at stage 2. For example:

Group - A: to easy, 1 good, us + crap
I only use enough slots of best players to get 2nd and to qualify for stage 2. Results: I have best players at stage 2.

Group - B: group of death, all good
I have to use my best players in order to qualify for stage 2 and there I have left only the worser part of my roaster.

So stage 1 may become very tactically (who do I need to get 2nd) and having unblanced groups is the worst thing one could have at stage 1... in the end luck may be the most critical thing to get promoted into B.

This is, I think, the only real valid argument why you would seed further down. If it was just a knockout stage afterwards with all players available, then I would fully agree with Cloud Strife that not even the big sports competitions are immune to that.

But there, the same players can be (abundantly) reused in later stages. Here, you could arguably be the best clan overall, but be forced to use more of your better players in stage 1 and be beaten by 2 clans in stage 2 who didn't have to do this, thus missing out on promotion (not even taking into account the inherent randomness of the games).

Edited 12/17/2016 13:01:53

Damn, u guys should definitely read carefully what MotD wrote on the templates thread about the procedure of CL 9.

Tentative Dates:

    12-17    Template panel prunes list of templates
    12-21    We verify the templates
    1-11     All clans submit their votes on the 12 1v1, 6 2v2, 4 3v3 templates
    1-17     Declare results of the vote.
    2-1      Submit clan lineups
    2-4      Random Draw to determine groups in Qualifiers.
    2-11     CL9 begins

U can see, that it's clearly saying, that each clan submits their lineup before knowing who they face. That's good, because it makes it fair, that nobody gains any advantage of an easier group. At least not for holding back the best players for stage 2. Ofc u can do that, but than u have to take the risk, that u might end up in a strong group in stage 1.

In my opinion that's enough to make it as fair as possible. There will be already 8 teams seeded. Which might not be that accurate in this first season, but it will be pretty much accurate on the following ones. Besides that it just makes it more interesting especially for the drawing itself if strong newcomer clans aren't seeded any further. That gives a more tactical note for submitting the lineup for all the clans in the qualifier stage.

Edited 12/17/2016 12:18:24

Ah okay that makes a Lot easier. Sry, for Missing out the Template thread. I am not aware which threads are on for CL9.

I would prefer to avoid ranking clans. It becomes hard because each clan does not know all the clans they are ranking and it becomes a crap shoot.

Why? A list will certainly not be perfect. But most players should be ranking all clans at plus minus the same place. It is obvious some clans are stronger than others. Everybody should be able to rank clans at least in a little bit normal fashion.

If we are then going to put them in groups of 4 then you have a little bit of playing room either way. You can be ranked 1st to 4th and still be in the same group. Even though most lists will rank clans slightly different. I doubt a serious misplacement will happen.

U can see, that it's clearly saying, that each clan submits their lineup before knowing who they face. That's good, because it makes it fair, that nobody gains any advantage of an easier group. At least not for holding back the best players for stage 2. Ofc u can do that, but than u have to take the risk, that u might end up in a strong group in stage 1.

This doesnt solve the problem, is only avoids tactically line-ups. As I stated above: There is the risk, that a clans performs very well at stage 1 in a difficult group, but hasnt left any good players at stage 2. And unbalanced group do increase the risk of this happening.

Ranking the clans may help to balance the groups and through my eyes this is way better than just randomized groups. There may be small inaccurencies but it is better than doing nothing about this issue.

This doesnt solve the problem, is only avoids tactically line-ups. As I stated above: There is the risk, that a clans performs very well at stage 1 in a difficult group, but hasnt left any good players at stage 2. And unbalanced group do increase the risk of this happening.

Ranking the clans may help to balance the groups and through my eyes this is way better than just randomized groups. There may be small inaccurencies but it is better than doing nothing about this issue.

When I read people complaining about potentially ending up in a hard group that they will use up all their good players stage 1, it feels like they are deflecting blame. If you do not have a deep lineup of players for clan league, that is the clan's fault, not the format's. In clan league, a clan with depth does better more often then not.

As to the two clans that have complained so far 101st and Apprentice, no clan knows more or can prepare more then each other so I don't know what you want. We are all starting on roughly equal footing. If you have a plan to seed all clans, because sure you can vote on the clans but then what, now is the time otherwise we are running out of time to adopt change.

This doesnt solve the problem, is only avoids tactically line-ups. As I stated above:
There is the risk, that a clans performs very well at stage 1 in a difficult group, but hasnt
left any good players at stage 2. And unbalanced group do increase the risk of this happening.

If a clan chooses to take their best players in all the 3 spots in stage 1 than that would be stupid, but not a problem at all. That clan won't have a chance to be successful on stage 2 than and let's be honest the only clans i can see doing that, are the clans that aren't as strong as the other clans in the qualifier stage, because every clan that has a chance at promoting to B won't let their best players play in all 3 spots in stage 1.

So GE is right when he says that u need to have a deep roster for these situations. If u're a really good clan than u don't have just a handful of good players, but also a good depth and than u should be able to field enough good players to still beat these clans who go all-in in stage 1. Without a deep roster it's unlikely that u would be able to compete in division B anyways.

From a neutral perspective i would love it if the format stays like it is. It makes things more interesting. Not only on the draw itself, but especially to see the strategies of the clans on their lineups. A good clan wants to rest some of their best players for stage 2 and might be able to do so if they have a deep roster, but they also have to weight the risk that they might play against clans who are going all in in stage 1. That's just a new tactical feature and so it can happen that some clans miscalculated themselfes, which would make things even more interesting.

Edited 12/17/2016 20:55:40