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The Fifth Amendment is Your Friend.: 10/9/2017 23:04:05


Padraig
Level 34
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No person ... shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself...

The above phrase is found in the fifth amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America.

What I put forward to you is a quick talk by a lawyer, James Duane, and an experienced police officer, George Bruch. It is well worth your time to listen to. The talk boils down to one very useful sentence; Don't talk to the Cops. In more than 25% of cases where an innocent man has been jailed, part of the evidence that put them there was their own words. Find out how that could happen. Find out how that could happen to you.

The Lawyer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=23&v=i8z7NC5sgik

The Cop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE

The entire amendment:

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.


More than you probably want to know:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
The Fifth Amendment is Your Friend.: 10/9/2017 23:31:28


Padraig
Level 34
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The talk by James Duane has been posted multiple times. It is said that his 2008 talk has been seen millions times.

He has written a book entitled You Have the Right To Remain Innocent.

If that is not enough for you, have a go at the talk he gave at the CATO Institute.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpkc2FZFR5k

Edited 10/9/2017 23:43:51
The Fifth Amendment is Your Friend.: 10/10/2017 00:15:24


Padraig
Level 34
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Asserting your right to council, telling the Police that you want a Lawyer is (according to one lawyer) the way to use your Fifth Amendment right. Owing to some terrible case law it is better not to say that you are "taking the fifth."

So when the cops want to talk with you, tell them I need to talk with a lawyer first.
The Fifth Amendment is Your Friend.: 10/10/2017 05:48:44


{Canidae} Kretoma 
Level 57
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I don't get it.
The Fifth Amendment is Your Friend.: 10/10/2017 11:45:27


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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I prefer the constitution of the People's Republic of China.
The Fifth Amendment is Your Friend.: 10/10/2017 21:45:43


Paugers 
Level 41
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I prefer the constitution of the Democratic Republic of Korea
The Fifth Amendment is Your Friend.: 10/10/2017 23:15:18


Wulfhere
Level 47
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In his introduction to Democracy: the God that Failed Hoppe distinguishes the American system, that is, the case for Democracy in the first world war, and the Austrian system, the case for Monarchy in that war.
The Fifth Amendment is Your Friend.: 10/12/2017 01:13:06


Padraig
Level 34
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Wulfhere, I don't see how Hoppe's assertions that democracy has failed or the notion that monarchy is a superior form of government has any bearing on the discussion. Monarchies may have formally defined rights for the citizens of a kingdom. Such rights could include a protection from being compelled to testify against ones self.
The Fifth Amendment is Your Friend.: 10/12/2017 02:08:38


Padraig
Level 34
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I don't get it.

Perhaps I don't get it either.

Under U.S. law there is some question regarding how a person may assert their right to not be put to question, including whether they need to formally assert that right.

In a recent Supreme Court case where a defendant had stood mute when questioned, the court held that the defendant's silence could be used as evidence during trial.

N. Richard Janis and Jennifer A. Sincavage offer the following commentary:

In the plurality opinion authored by Justice Alito and joined by Justices Kennedy and Roberts, the Court recited the two existing exceptions to the general proposition that a defendant must expressly invoke his Fifth Amendment privilege in order to enjoy its protections: 1) a criminal defendant need not take the stand to assert the privilege at his own trial, and 2) a witness’s failure to invoke the privilege must be excused where governmental coercion makes his forfeiture of the privilege involuntary. The Court declined to create a third exception to the express invocation requirement where a witness chooses to stand mute rather than give an answer ...

The Court went on to state that the express invocation requirement applies even when an official has reason to suspect that the answer to his question would incriminate the witness, and that forfeiture of the privilege need not be knowing.

So the majority position was that the defendant failed to expressly invoke his right. As such his behavior, to wit, of standing mute, could be used in evidence against him.

Justices Thomas and Scalia in their concurring opinion held that the defendant by his inaction of standing mute had invoked the right.

but (they) would have allowed the prosecution to use evidence of Salinas’ silence against him at trial—essentially holding that an individual has no protection under the Fifth Amendment when he submits to voluntary questioning by authorities.

So James Duane holds that an improper invocation of the right to avoid self incrimination may itself incriminate you. Does he go to far in saying so? I can say that in matters where a defendant's very life may be in question it is bizarre in the extreme for a fundamental protection to be contingent on a person reciting some spell like ritual verbiage. And yet it is presently the case.

Hence, it is so important not to get it wrong.
The Fifth Amendment is Your Friend.: 10/12/2017 02:10:51


Padraig
Level 34
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The Fifth Amendment is Your Friend.: 10/12/2017 02:49:14


Wulfhere
Level 47
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In the first chapter of his work Democracy: The God That Failed Hoppe introduces the concept of time preference, with a higher time preference being the tendency of an individual, population, or institution to consume in the moment, for instant gratification, and a lower time preference being the tendency to save, building capital such that more can be consumed in the future. Hoppe argues that a civilization forms, and distinguishes itself from barbarians, when the collective time preferences of a group reach a low point such that capital is built increasingly over time, leading to an increase in living standards and productivity. (Hoppe's civilization is entirely distinct from the Spenglerian sense of the word.)
The Fifth Amendment is Your Friend.: 10/12/2017 03:59:20


Padraig
Level 34
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I have watched an excerpt from one of Hoppe's lectures. Your description of Hoppe's ideas seems correct. What relation these ideas have to the protections against self incrimination found in U.S. law is not clear to me. If you have something to say about that I would be interested.
The Fifth Amendment is Your Friend.: 10/12/2017 13:06:07


Cata Cauda
Level 58
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Okay so, why should I care about US-laws as non US-citizen? Can we talk about international laws on an international site here?
The Fifth Amendment is Your Friend.: 10/12/2017 14:51:48


Onoma94 
Level 60
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^ You are free to create a thread on such topic
The Fifth Amendment is Your Friend.: 10/12/2017 15:28:12


Padraig
Level 34
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^^Instead of peevishly sniping you might tell us about your own country's laws on this subject.

I for one would have an interest in that.

Edited 10/13/2017 01:02:23
The Fifth Amendment is Your Friend.: 10/12/2017 22:32:54


Wulfhere
Level 47
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When is Cata not saltily attacking people.

Top jej
The Fifth Amendment is Your Friend.: 10/13/2017 13:23:17


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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no you wouldn't. few would. It's very unimportant and local. this is less local but still you only find a far-retard to discuss it with.
The Fifth Amendment is Your Friend.: 10/14/2017 04:17:14


Padraig
Level 34
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It's very unimportant and local.

Obviously I do not agree.

Sláinte mhaith.
The Fifth Amendment is Your Friend.: 10/14/2017 17:36:21


Wulfhere
Level 47
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A constitution is no barrier to tyranny, as history has shown. A democratic dictatorship can easily draft a constitution and violate its core principles on a regular basis. Such was the case with revolutionary France, the USSR, and the PRC.

The real way to preserve the rights of citizens is to structure the state such that abuse would result in real political consequences. Even the US Supreme court lost its ability to halt our path towards self destruction after the New Deal Era. We have no real checks and balances; all of our "democratically" elected social Marxists, with few exceptions, agree on the same policies within a certain threshold. Among them, White genocide, an expanding welfare state, and social ideological collectivism.

Like individuals, institutions are bound to the organic law of growth and decline. Our rotten Western governments are in dire need of fresh replacements.
The Fifth Amendment is Your Friend.: 10/14/2017 18:35:05


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 51
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fully automated gay space elf autocracy pls
The Fifth Amendment is Your Friend.: 10/14/2017 19:40:19


Cata Cauda
Level 58
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fully automated gay space elf autocracy pls
I understand that reference.
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