i save my charm for those who are worthy. so far, only aranka.

Your charm, as displayed in this thread is in much need of improvement.

If you believe in a religion, you have to give it your complete obedience. What is the point of Believing in the LORD, if you will not obey the First commandment? You shall have no other Gods. I am sure that is a big tenant in other major religions. If you won't follow this law, why believe in any religion?

And if you have doubts in a divine being, listen to this. The second rule of thermodynamics state that entropy (chaos) always increases. Ex. You can mix cream in coffee but you can't take cream out of coffee.
The Universe is becoming increasingly chaotic, it is just the natural way of it. Yet, here on Earth it is not. Life is the exact opposite of chaos. What is the human body but a series of controlled chemical reactions under the influence of a self replicating molecule called DNA? And if DNA can only be replicated from former DNA, how would it have been created originally? Truly, any man of science would realize that life couldn't even hypothetical exist in this universe so you are forced to believe that we were made by a divine being.

In any closed system entropy is always increasing. However, neither a cell nor a human is a closed system. When material gets more organized and becomes a cell, that comes at a cost to the organization of the matter outside of the cell. This does not violate thermodynamics.

Actually the base components of life have been created from the constituents of the early Earth. We are not forced to believe anything.

Ah, I forgot that that detail. Anyways I love a good debate.
Still kinda spins your head a little bit.

Edited 4/22/2014 17:25:53

Dubs,
I know many Sikhs who are monotheists but think that their way of worshipping God is only one of the valid ways of doing so.

I didn't say everyone was like that. I know people who have been to many types of churches as well. You usually know when you found the one that suits you though, and that is all that matters I guess.

I must have misread... I took: 'If you believe in a religion, you have to give it your complete obedience.' to suggest that you thought monotheism implied particularism.

My Religion is F***youtism

Dubs,
I know many Sikhs who are monotheists but think that their way of worshipping God is only one of the valid ways of doing so.

I agree with your logic mostly but it does not imply what religion claims.
The way of worshiping anything has nothing to do with the validity of the worship.
Those who think that as long as you are spiritual, it doesn't matter which god you worship, are just being duped.
Any religion is a practice of fraud which exploits spirituality(or what we don't know yet) to make people do what they want them to do.
Monotheism is something we human invented, it was always many gods before.
With time our leaders saw it more fitting to have one god = one leader.
They just changed the religion according to their needs.

I must have misread... I took: 'If you believe in a religion, you have to give it your complete obedience.' to suggest that you thought monotheism implied particularism.

Monotheism does not imply particular-ism, but religion itself does. Since what ever god says, is right by definition. So if you claim to believe in any god, then you must obey everything he says including all the particulars.
So if god says that all those who work on Sunday must be put to death for breaking one of the sacred commandments all theists that are either:
a. Islam
b. Christianity
c. Judaism

Must kill those people else they are not true believers but hypocrites.

Well all believers are hypocrites with themselves and others by definition. The ones that weren't we put them in jail or the electric chair since we call them terrorists.

You are forgetting that the belief of one god is ancient as well. Christianity is not a newer religion. Catholicism is relatively newer on the time scale, but the belief of one God does go back thousands of years as well. Albeit, it was a relatively small religion until the end of the first millennia.
Second part, about your believers being hypocrites. If you believe in Christianity, you will now that we live in a sinful world. Believers try to follow the ten commandments, but they also acknowledge that they will continue to sin. They believe that everyone sins, believer or not. That is the reason they believe that humanity needed a savior, Jesus Christ.

Edited 4/23/2014 13:45:36

They believe that everyone sins, believer or not. That is the reason they believe that humanity needed a savior, Jesus Christ.

HaHa, it is the church(new testament) that turned the breaking of god's commandments into sins.
The old testament was clear as day on the punishment involved in breaking those commandments.
Death

There is no soul or afterlife in the old testament.
The worst punishment is Death.

Christianity created a more evil god that can give even worse punishments then death.
Eternal torture for everyone that doesn't believe.

I know it is hard to accept but it is the truth, from all the atrocities in the old testament ordered by god himself.
Compared to the christian god, the old testament god is a cry baby when it comes to pure evil.

Although what you said is true, I believe that death is used in several ways. Death can be a literal mortal punishment, but it can also be used in the term of spiritual death, meaning hell. But you do have good points, I'll give you that.

But you do have good points, I'll give you that.

That is a quality not usually found in a believer. Honesty.

I can assure you, there is no such thing as spiritual death in the old testament.

God goes to the length of explaining how they should be slaughtered.
However it usually does not involve torture.

Something the christian god seems to like very much, considering what he did to his own son because he is so omnipotent that he can't even forgive without a human sacrifice(his own son).

Edited 4/24/2014 00:29:19

Hello
@Dubs:
Although what you said is true[...]
No, it's not true. Of course there is a concept of afterlife in the Old Testament:
http://www.bibleserver.com/text/NIV/Daniel12

There simply is no greater entity than the flying spaghetti monster, creator of it all...universe, girls, beer, nature and all the other fancy gods ofc.

Im ok with the other gods though they and their followers really make a bloody mess sometimes, but how could i not be ok with them if the flying master created it all with his spaghettis and meat balls?

Also you cant proof me wrong, so i must be right.

Oh yeah, really old stuff....but thats always the case with religion, isnt it?

Christians must be the dumbest fuckers ever. Say a few things that sound clever and they're suddenly thinking it's the wisest shit since sliced Moses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

http://www.studymode.com/essays/Bertrand-Russell%27s-First-Cause-Argument-43916.html (note that this is study material from somebody containing the persons views on Russel's argument, i couldnt find a better one quickly)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPDW-Es-icI - Some incapacities of logical consistent thinking (which in this context pretty much boils down to being too weak to accept facts that arent consoling and/or having an immature, poorly developed brain structure) revealed here, some in a quite funny way. Offended? Grow a brain, a proper spine and balls (or boobies, whatever suits you best) - you still can probably.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ5QG3MUTtg - Religion being just human nature? And if so it must be a good thing, right!? Are you agnostic or atheistic? Maybe you will be surprised to learn you didnt even really knew it yourself so far. And other basic stuff.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiBIkTHvXLw - Stupid Atheists (Watch it! Comrades - its really unbelieveable!).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rM3WVL3DvZM - Stupid, or probably better ignorant/ properly indoctrinated, christian, defending slavery - because fearing his god. Ignoring his own "logics".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32KfqZhJZXA - Must watch in this context! I give you that, the goodhearted christian caller is not the brightest bulb in town, neither the most strongest person. Hosts do all to reach him by emotional, practical arguments - the hypocrisy and flaws in logic - and its consequences are still quite astonishing. Watch a killing spree being interpreted as a miracle and god proof by your goodhearted christian neighbour - due to his inability of logical thinking and leaving his comfort zone. Naturally it also holds some of the most basic, very very simple explanations of why religion can be dangerous and evil.


If you're through with that and you might have come across some stuff that is new to you (be it bad or good, from your point of view), you may enjoy this as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxm2WDlEbh0 - A one hour plus debate on some of the topics/ arguments involved, between Prof. Richard Dawkins (evolutionary biologist and atheist) and Prof. John Lennox (mathematician and christian).

Edited 4/29/2014 15:04:06

@Aranka

Since i now actually have made the mistake to almost go through all of the posts here:

"Atheist are people who deny all religions."

That is a false conception. They dont think there is a god. This might imply they deny all religions as well but it doesnt necessary have to imply that.

Is that too precise for you, so details dont matter for you? Well, im also of the opinion people gave you good answers and actually falsified your argument. I must agree with them that you obviously only came here to say your point is true and not willing to seek proof of different models to explain what seems to bugger you (camouflaged by showing interest in other persons views and asking about them).

It therefore makes not much sense to keep discussing with you and the thread should either be hijacked - so to expand the actual topic - or be abandoned. ^^

Edited 4/29/2014 18:32:01