https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzG_J7RCGS0

The english dont like it, actually most of the scottish dont like but theyre too apathetic to vote. None of them for good geopolitical reasons, its mostly emotional reactions all round. Scotland has oil in the North sea, and their political parties are less established and therefore less shitty.

I like the idea. The scandinavia thing is a bit odd. Ive never been to scand, but from what i hear it is dark and cold and a bit backward. People have a sense of community and a dark sense of humour. Scotland fits well with that.

I'm not from the British Isles, but I will say while it appears the separatists feel like this:



Leaving the U.K. just seems like a dumb idea to me. Sure, there might be oil in the North Sea. And staying in the E.U. may be a foolish economic decision, but a separate Scotland? It's been about three hundred years since they were a self-governing nation. Do they really feel as though the U.K. is shoving them under the bus? Or is it just a nationaist rant?

I have just the feeling that it's one of those situations where the Scots are living in the past, focusing on their past mistreatments from the U.K., and thinking that the only right thing to do is to get off the sinking ship and away from the power that mistreated them.

If Scotland leaves for a little self-governing experiment, though, it would be a huge blow to British prestige. I'd rather see the U.K. leave the E.U. than Scotland leave the U.K.

G.B. flage without Scotland:


Edit:
source:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2593781/Scot-free-Union-Jack-gets-Yes-vote-makeover-Secret-Government-papers-reveal-flag-look-Scotland-votes-independence.html

Edited 7/9/2014 12:40:42

That looks terrible. Though wont the flag stay the same?

The flag will stay the same, I'm sure.

I don't think there are any reliable opinion polls out but anecdotally (I'm in Scotland now) it seems most are against. Whether the against are motivated enough to vote is another thing. See what happened with UKIP and the European Elections.

About the oil. Its British. If Scotland leave, I have no idea how it would be split but for sure Scotland aren't just gonna be given it due to proximity.

All in all it seems very risky. London is driving the entire economy and that doesn't look likely to change any time soon.

They would not try to become part of Scandanavia. How do you think that could actually happen? Some politicians are suggesting that they increase trade etc with that region to separate themselves from London.

Edward the I 'The hammer of the Scots' was the first King to unify the crowns of England and Scotland but he did so by force of arms. James VI and I did so politically but the seat of power was definitely still English and the Stuarts were anglicized in much the same way the Chinese assimilated any foreign rulers who came to power there.

The No poll is consistently higher than the Yes in all polls. Though there was a surge for Yes earlier in the year it's petered out a bit and No still shows a decent lead.

I live in the North and can completely understand the apathy or anger towards the Westminster government felt by many up here and in Scotland. And it's important to consider that the current party of power is the Conservatives. Scotland hates Tories as do most northerners after Thatcher systematically dismantled our economy and destroyed the unions. So the fact that even with the hated 'nasty party' in power the No poll is leading is striking. (To illustrate how unwelcome Conservatives are in the North the Better Together campaign have enlisted Gordan Brown the ex Labour PM to run the campaign alongside Alistair Darling [the spin doctor made out of teflon])

Personally I think the reason the No campaign is still ahead is because of the economy I touched earlier upon the fact that the traditional Northern economies were changed under Thatcherism and they haven't really been replaced yet. The British economy is very London centric. With the fact that we still haven't recovered economically from the banking crisis - government figures saying we have have been proven to be based on an anomalous spike. And ordinary people will tell you they don't feel better off or more secure now. Wages are still very low, 0 hours contracts are more normal than ever before. And when the SNP talk about becoming closer to Europe Scots only have to look over the Irish Sea to the 'Celtic Tiger' that was Ireland and the situation it is in now politically and financially mortgaged to the E.U after it's bailout. Or further afield to Portugal, Greece, Spain, Italy or Cyprus to see the danger of being a smaller economy within Europe.

That said I think the reason the No campaign has a chance is because the Scottish are proud to be Scottish and rightly so. They have a long history and have produced many of the worlds leading men and inventions throughout time. They took part in the United Kingdoms empire building to a probably proportionately highly ratio than any other country. But they didn't get to share the wealth it created equally. Since the Union began the English have always taken more out of Scotland than they put in. The rebate doesn't even begin to pay back what comes out. And that's before private investors take out wealth.

Edited 7/9/2014 10:48:42

A better re-design of the flag if Scotland leaves so the Welsh can be included;

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/71502000/jpg/_71502906_union-like-(2).jpg

edit: for some reason the image won't show so I just included a link.

Edited 7/10/2014 01:04:37

I like it.


P.s. USe [/img]
||
V

Edited 7/10/2014 01:14:51

http://www.croydonguardian.co.uk/news/11255417.South_Norwood_to_hold_independence_referendum_on_eve_of_Scotland_vote/

I will be voting for independence.

Fuck London and Fuck England.

Crystal Palace haven't seen Europe for too long.

I'm a crumpet for the Scots. The General attitude around here is that it's stupid and will all go to shit. The yes voters say we will definitely leave us better off. Cameron is poncing around with his shiny forehead. What little information we get is heavily biased in one direction or the other. no yes yes no. I just think we should stop playing the damn bagpipes all the time!

David Cameroon is trying to be seen as getting tough with the EU because his party, the Conservatives, are loosing votes to UKIP by the day. Why he's getting involved in this debate about Scotland is beyond me, he should let the Scots have the debate by themselves, he's not Scottish, he's English, so it's not a debate for him.

As for Scotland feeling that the UK economy is too London-centric, well I agree with them. For the purposes of the economy, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, the midlands, the North of England, the Isle of Wight, South-West England, Hampshire and parts of East Anglia all seem to exist to support the economy of London and its home counties. This is something that needs to change.

Conservatives, are loosing votes to UKIP by the day.

Not really. The next election will be won by Labour or Conservatives (most likely the latter) based partly on them being more euro-skeptic out of the two. The many unexpected (immigrant, educated, middle class) voters of UKIP will not support their vying for actual power. They just want a bomb to go off in Brussels.

It ain't gonna happen. The Scots just want some attention (and let's face it, who doesn't, London's stealing the show at the moment). Let's give the limelight to them for a bit and hopefully they'll get over it.

As for changing the London-centric economy. That simply isn't going to happen. The future of humanity is in metropolises. Face it and embrace it or get lost in the past.

What on Earth does join Scandinavia mean? That's a ridiculous notion, Scandinavia is a geographical area not a political union. What's actually been said by Alex Salmond is that he wants to model the Scottish economy and foreign policy on that of Scandinavian countries, which actually makes some kind of sense, but is irrelevant because independence is unlikely to happen, at least this time around.

Edited 7/11/2014 22:09:11

The electoral map is favourable to Labour. They only need 34% to win a majority. Whilst the Conservatives need somewhere from 38 to 40%. So a repeat of the local elections would see a comfortable Labour win.

This poll from June shows that despite the media narrative we hear from the press there are plenty of people in Britain who would like to stay in Europe:

http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/06/17/eu-referendum-record-lead

So it's not as clear cut as all that. Even if you consider the European elections and UKIPs really strong showing, the majority of Brits still voted for either pro Europe (Labour, Lib Dem, Green [SNP, Plaid Cymru]) or Europe reforming parties (Conservatives)

Labour does however need it's Scottish seats a Yes vote would hurt them a lot more than any other party - though it wouldn't exactly help the lib Dems. Even with both parties losing members and votes at an alarming rate in Scotland to the SNP in recent years, they have far more representatives than the Conservatives who have only a single MP.

Some English want to feel special so they complain about the EU and say the UK should quit the EU. Some Scots want to feel special so they complain about the UK and organize a referendum that will fail.

There are clearly three causes to this problem:

(1) Rainy weather causes gloominess and irritability. Look at X. If all Britons (some strange name I read in the Economist, to make British feel more special?) got more UV rays on a consistent basis, they would already be using the euro!

(2) The British Empire was handed over to the Americans and British culture and language are likewise being Americanized. It's a mid-life identity crisis. My small island still matters! And I am Scottish/English, not American/European! (Granted, the English don't want to say this too loudly in a political context, because they benefit most from the status quo.)

(3) Anti-immigration angst and xenophobia are on the rise. Scotland for the Scots and Britain for the whites!

So it's not as clear cut as all that. Even if you consider the European elections and UKIPs really strong showing, the majority of Brits still voted for either pro Europe (Labour, Lib Dem, Green [SNP, Plaid Cymru]) or Europe reforming parties (Conservatives)

I would like to point out that the conservatives are offering a referendum on leaving after the next election if they win a majority and although the green party support our continued EU membership, they still support a referendum on leaving it.

Absolutely correct. The parties have nuanced views on Europe. But the leadership of both the Greens and Conservatives support staying in Europe.

Interesting that you mentioned the Greens though. Did you know in blind policy tests the Greens consistently beat all the other parties? And yet their vote share slid slightly in the European elections. I find it really interesting that even though many people like there policies the most they are never covered by the media and collectively Britain seems to think "well a green vote is a wasted vote, even if i like them I'm voting for someone with a chance." It's like if Democracy was a tragicomedy :)

http://voteforpolicies.org.uk

not exactly blind when all of the bnp/ukip policies involve kicking out immigrants. "This party promises to improve education by kicking out those fucking immigrants. They don't even speak English FFS." - gosh, chill out racists. have a curry