^^^ I agree with Quicksand's sentiments,
as I don't think a 1% Tax would do much to keep the game going...

but on the other hand, I don't think it should take more than 1 season to withdraw you coins either... and the $75.00 minimum does seem a bit steep...

I think it should be much closer to $25.00...
but again, if there is a financial incentives to buy coins,
that gets in the way when providing fair methods to get those coins back...

Perhaps the game should keep the bonus coins under certain circumstances...

maybe even additional coins under rare circumstances... :)

Thanks for listening.

-- Dublin Warrior

5% sounds like a compromise to me.

changing tax from 10% to 1% would decrease money in by 10 times. To keep warlight at even income you suggest that by doing that 10 times as much money will flow between players? Also at low price ranges (e.g. 5 coin entry games) you cannot have 1% tax rate, 10% is the least you can have (apart from 0, but that would be silly) so it seems fine as it is.

The round robin tournament idea you have I'm pretty sure is what happens at the moment with open tournaments.
However I do like your idea for Seasonal, it would incentivise people to play well. However it does mean that some could surrender to a "friend" to help them come 1st for a financial incentive, sharing the reward slightly, if the player throwing the game would not make much more money from a win.

"The Tax should be 1%...then there's more revenue for Fizzer by the means of more games" Really?

You do not know how many coin games are currently played, you also cannot know what effect any particular tax rate would have on number of games played. You do KNOW in a deep and unquestioning way that massive tax cuts necessarily means higher revenue and that can only mean one thing...



Edited 8/13/2015 12:59:21

Well played, piggy. Well played.

anyway, i know some people bought coins, but i wnder if the large majority fo coins going out there arent still the free coins everyone lost at the begginign to the good players. I just got back to coin games when fizer created the 5 coin entry games

No one has mentioned the marketing we are doing for coin games. The $1 we are giving all new players adds up. The marketing costs are offset by entry fees. Coins are more successful if marketed. So the balance between giving $1.00 to each new person and the cost of entry fees are related. If we reduced our marketing there would be less coin players. Coin Players would earn less money. No one wins if there is no one to play. :) So by paying a 10% entry fee, you are helping promote the game.

Players like Krzychu for example have put no money in but have won thousands of dollars.

Is it possible for me to get the gift if I rejected it because I thought I couldn't play because of my age?

@Benjamin628, no. But feel free to put some money in and play.

Hmm...

My point remains. The only two incentives to pay for coins are (1) you can win 2/3 of the games against other invested, and therefore skilled, players, and (2) you like to donate to Warlight.

Fair Warning: I'm pulling these numbers out of my keister. To get a better idea, you could map out a normal distribution centered at 50% with a few standard deviations. Give me the coin game stats and I'll do it if you want.

But anyway.... Assume....With a 10% tax, there are about than 0.5% of the players that could have positive coin flow (per reason 1 above). With a 1% tax, there are likely 20% of players that could have positive coin flow. Therefore, you get a 40 times increase in the number of coin game players for a 10x decrease in tax rate.

Thus, I just raised revenue by 4x, not cut it by 10x.

Next, Compare the house cut to the following:

House Edge (with proper play)
Blackjack 0.5%
Craps, 0.8%
Video Poker,0.5-5%
Baccarat 1.06%
Roulette 5.5%
Slot Machines, 0-17%
Slot Machines, 5-17%
Keno, 25%+
State Lottery, 50%+

-AND-

Poker Rake: Typically 2.5% to 10%

Sources: http://vegasclick.com/gambling/houseedge.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rake_(poker)

While the first set are games of chance, when played to their best ability, the house typically wins 0.5% to 5% for popular games.

The second stat is closer to what we have, a casino's rake on a poker game, a game of skill head to head against a competitor. At least according to wikipedia, we're at the max of a typical casino rake for a poker game.

Make the odds closer to the more popular casino games if you want people to have a chance. This has nothing to do with me being an American. This has everything to do with people having no incentive to play coin games because buying coins is akin to a donation to the site. I've bought several donation memberships for other players, a dead piggy alt included, so I'm not saying donations (per reason 2 above) don't happen. But if you want a sustainable coin game system, The Rent is Too Damn High!

Source:




Finally, Mercer, until someone makes a withdrawl, Warlight is paying out funny money. Every coin that is payed out needs to be played. Per the terms/conditions, every coin needs to be played (and thus subject to 10% tax) or face a 18% anti-money laundering fee. Additionally, withdrawls are also subject to almost 9% admin tax fee for a $75 withdrawl. From the 100*thousands, yes, that goes to the pool of payouts, however, all the more reason to have people increase the amount they play by lowering the tax.

How is the rent high when you can play for free? You are not required to play coin games.

@CMU, that's the other problem. With free rent available for regular open games, there is no reason to make donations to warlight by buying coins.

My concerns address fixing the motivation to buy a coin in the first place, which funds warlight.

@[REGL]Pooh, For a guy that has played zero coin games and sits with 100 free coins in his account... I am not sure you are qualified to answer this. Would you play if we had a 1% rake?

Just as a quick question, what would the 1% tax do to a say 10 coin wager game

I think the 10% coin tax is fair.

What coins need to succeed is not a lower tax rate (after all, Fizzer gives people 100 free coins, as well as coins for certain achievements), but more coin players and more new blood.

Instead of adjusting how much of the pie Fizzer takes each game, instead grow the size of the pie!

The system Fizzer has set up is clever. Giving people free coins so that they can whet their appetite is a great idea. More advertising to increase the amount of WL players to build up the community will create a positive reinforcement cycle for players to get involved in coin games.

I do agree with lowering the withdrawal limit, though. Like I've said above, I've placed top 10 for three (four now actually) seasons, and still cant withdraw.

To this end, I would propose a system of withdrawal fees something like the following:
Coins Withdrawn Fee
1000-2500 50% of coins
2500-5000 25% of coins
5000-7500 10% of coins
7500+ No fee

That way, if you really want to, you can withdraw early. But there is an incentive to reach the 7500 that is the current cap.

Edited 8/14/2015 03:23:24

The lack of players in coin games is really the lack of good templates.

Another advantage to the system I just pointed out would be that it would incentive you to keep playing to get more and more coins, thus paying more taxes ^^

@Mercer, there's no reason for me to use the coins.

I am not that good of a player to ever withdraw a full $75.
Playing coin games does not give me access to any game that I can't already play.
I am not a fan of 0% luck settings.

If there were a reason for me to use them, I'd play them, and maybe even buy more. As it stands, I'll sit on my 4+ memberships that I purchased back in the day and my 100 gifted coins until there's a reason to play the coins.

I'm not trolling, I'm trying to be constructive with my feedback. If you see how I can be more constructive, please let me know.

Edited 8/14/2015 03:36:11

@ Pooh

Have you played a lot of coin games yet? I think you might find the 0% luck fun after a while. It allows you to control the outcome much more!

I don't think the point of coin games is to make money. I think the point is to gamble. It adds an aspect of intensity when your money is on the line even if it is just 80 cents.