My clan seems to go well in this statistics , and we just have almost a month of existence :)

Wow! Nice work knyte and meta knyte. These stats are very good and interesting, despite being long, this forum post deserves 10/10 for me!

This all is based on the accounts that are within official clan, correct? We have few people here that joined with alts only for awesome apex forum :P
Also somehow I'm not included in "All-Time 1v1 Ladder Peak Ratings for All Clan Members" :(

EDIT: Actually I think I'm not included in more than just that...

Edited 8/26/2015 17:49:09

Very cool.

On a side note: I'd ask you to do one for who spams out the most clan invitations, but we already know who tops that list.

@Wid: Yes, you're left out of pretty much all the ladder stuff because your ladder stats aren't public on your profile. For the sake of accuracy, I'm tempted to redo some of this using the actual ladder page but that's going to require me to make even more queries to the WL server than this did (sorry, Fizzer!).

@Berserk: unfortunately that info isn't public but it would be fun to analyze. :(

Edited 8/26/2015 16:38:33

- Elite clans, like apex/WG/etc. that don't recruit and just invite already-good/great players.

- Big clans, like Illuminati/CORP/etc., that do recruit (even if they have restrictions) and invite developing players (and usually help them develop in some way)

The first clans can't be faulted- they work toward a different goal entirely- but the second group isn't really that great at helping the WL community develop- usually they don't get enough members to really help the community in any way, fail to scale well (low-activity clans being good examples of that), or just have a bunch of players and fail to provide any benefits for most of them. From my perspective, these clans completely fail to leverage their potential as communities that could work toward collaborative growth and really change the landscape of Warlight. I think a big reason for that is that we've only got 132 clans that have been active in the past 30 days (154 total), and that's because most people aren't going to spend $15 to make a clan. This means that we don't really see much disruption- lots of people have ideas about how to run a clan, but most won't ever get implemented- and competition. The clan system isn't going to be trending toward the optimal community, because there's nothing really forcing it to.

hm saying that there are two types of clans is simplistic. Yes, most big clans are kinda a mess.
but as you know some clans like role, team games, or a little bit of everything, some are just communities of players who speaks the same lenguage. There are a lot of them that i dont have idea what they do but they are active.
The "elite" clans That you mentioned in fact are a very small percentage of the clans with (most of them) few players. I dont see how they help the WL community develop more than the ones I mentioned except of course in the competitive scene. which again, is a important part of the comunity, but very small.

having said that i would like to see ranking or anything that would improve, organize, refine the clans. But most of the statics above are useful for the first group of clan. the ones that are already doing fine.

hm saying that there are two types of clans is simplistic.

Yes, a binary simplification of the clan system is simplistic. The question is whether it's useful.

but as you know some clans like role, team games, or a little bit of everything, some are just communities of players who speaks the same lenguage. There are a lot of them that i dont have idea what they do but they are active.

Exactly. I think that the mess is a symptom of the current setup. On one hand, we have clans that have goals- which makes a ton of sense- but they rarely actively pursue these goals. I've been in multiple RP clans and only one of them was actually active about creating and playing RP games, and that was partially because I was running it.

Right now, most clans are just half-assing things because there's no disincentive against inactivity.

The "elite" clans That you mentioned in fact are a very small percentage of the clans with (most of them) few players.

I wasn't really analyzing them at all, just saying that they're a different animal than what I was going to care about. But in most games I've ever played with a clan/alliance/guild system, you do see this sort of development- some good player just go off to forge their own communities because they specifically want to be surrounded by good players. Those clans are too tiny, although very skilled, to make a big impact on the community by directly helping players- instead, they're pioneer of the metagame, building things like Clan League.

"Elite" clans don't really need specific incentive systems to function well- they're driven almost entirely by the desire of good players to be with other good players. It's the other ones- "big" clans- that I think need an incentive system which WL fails to provide.

having said that i would like to see ranking or anything that would improve, organize, refine the clans. But most of the statics above are useful for the first group of clan. the ones that are already doing fine.

That's true. I put this thread up hoping to get suggestions- so if you have any that would help big clans more, I'd appreciate it if you shared them. :)

My point is to have a more wide consideration. And that you are overestimating the contribution of one type over the other even if they are messy.
Not sure if it will work what works for one on the other. but is good the iniciative.

suggestion? hm i think they threw you most of the posible ranks you can do with the access you have. :)
i think The Big clans need more things that make the experience of belonging to a clan more entertaining like most of the games have. some clan leaders do nice stuff but they have few tools.

What sort of tools do you think clan leaders could use?

i mean tools that WL system fails to provide, as you said and most i think will agree on this.
if the idea of the thread is to help to organize the clans with some ranks.
How about search how many players quit the a clan after a few days of joining. so we have an idea how newbie friendly a clan is.
How much tournaments a clan host.
i dont know just some random ideas.

Mongols is tied for 46th for numbers of top 200 1v1 players. Who wants to touch me?

Those clans are too tiny, although very skilled, to make a big impact on the community by directly helping players- instead, they're pioneer of the metagame, building things like Clan League.

The "elite" clans That you mentioned in fact are a very small percentage of the clans with (most of them) few players. I dont see how they help the WL community develop more than the ones I mentioned except of course in the competitive scene. which again, is a important part of the comunity, but very small.

Wrong, those tiny clans already changed the community.

Back in the day, clans were quite disregarded by players without a clan. Popular opinion was that a player from a clan is actually on average weaker than the clan-less one. That's the opinion I was taught when I joined WL, that's what I somewhat experienced / confirmed myself. I bet clan participation was much lower than 0.1%, and even lower among better players.

That changed very slowly, mainly thanks to clans that actually cared about who they accept in their clan and how well they play... Clan reputation changed, more people joined / formed clans, clan league become excting / worth making, Fizzer made clans official...

Saying "elite" clans made no big impact on the community is silly at best. Sure, they don't help new players improve directly, but it's thanks to them that new players can / want to join a clan, a good one, where they should get better faster than on their own, unless they join a bad one.

well i dont know how the thing was before. im relatively new in WL. but i never said they dont make big inpact. Just said that compared with all the activity today of the wl comunity, which is more than help new players it dosent seem so significant to me. i may be wrong throu.

want to join a clan, a good one, where they should get better faster than on their own, unless they join a bad one.

So I think this is the issue.

Clans are either:

Good (helpful): "where they should get better faster than on their own" (or otherwise grow or enjoy the game more in whatever aspect they care about)

or

Bad (unhelpful): clans that don't help players increase their growth/enjoyment in whatever aspect of the game they care about

To simplify this into something more measurable, I think we can say that Good clans' contributions are reflected in player growth and increased activity.

Also, clans are either:

Inclusive: most players (especially those who would benefit the most from a growth environment) are able to join

or

Exclusive: only a few players who are already skilled in some aspect of the game (or meet some other requirement posed by the clan) are eligible to join

My interpretation of what Widzisz pointed out is that at first, the clans were mostly big Bad-Inclusive groups that just added players for the sake of adding them or small Bad-Exclusive bands of friends/weak players/etc. Then the elite clans came in as Good-Exclusive clans- groups that contributed to activity/growth but were partly able to succeed due to their exclusiveness. I think we've got a deficit in another group that we need for Clans to make a huge impact in the community: Good-Inclusive clans.

While Good-Exclusive clans build the game and rapidly change it (as Widzisz pointed out, Good-Exclusive clans have a huge impact on player behavior and aspects of the metagame like Clan League/clan wars/clan tournaments/clan challenges/etc. and even on individual competitions), we need Good-Inclusive clans to push that growth out to the community at large.

I think that right now the clan system tends toward Good-Exclusive clans (Apex, WG, GG, VS, Yin-Yang, FBG, {Olympus}) whose recruitment requirements tend to filter out most players who need help with their growth and Bad-Inclusive clans (DARKLORDS, The Lost Wolves). There are a few Good-Inclusive clans but most of them are RP clans or region/language-based- we're really just left with M'Hunters, Illuminati, and a few others, but their community penetration so far is well short of potential and they often seem to be trying to follow the Good-Exclusive clan model.

In short, I don't think that the clan system has been leveraged to its full extent by the player community to create player growth and increase player activity- ultimately contributing to player retention. I also doubt that we can get Fizzer to improve the incentive model that encourages this by overhauling the Clan system anytime soon.

So it's up to us to do what we can about it. That's why I'm interested in:

- data that clan leaders, members, and potential members would benefit from

- tools that clan leaders would be able to use to better contribute to player growth and increased activity without expending a ton of effort on their part

- ways to increase clans' contributions to their members

Amazing thread. Excellent work!

Some nice statistics, some are completely pointless, but hey, not my time wasted for making those :)

It's also not entirely true that "elite" clans don't help people out. There's a couple people that are in the "elite" clans who join the big clans with alts then pick out people with potential and teach them. I also cannot recall ever denying a 1v1 someone invited me to, asking to improve their game. For me to play vs them and analyze what they did. I'm completely open to that and many other people in the "elite" clans are because it's beneficial for us to analyze our/other people's games even if they're not that good.

Case and point, the easiest way to improve is to watch ladder games, and analyze EVERY mistake you make in 1v1s. I may not admit it to the person I'm playing against but I'll notice all the little mistakes I made that could've ended the game sooner, or just would've been more efficient.

Also last I checked Apex doesn't actually have any pre-reqs. Our recruitment system is unanimous consent.

You might find that the "elite" clans aren't so above that they won't accept promising players. In WG during the recruitment process which was democratic vote, people would have series of games with the recruit, and analyze those games with them. This means WG is open to helping players who try out in hopes that in a couple months or whatever they can re-tryout and impress the majority of the clan.

Lynx has a sub-clan called 101st which have Lynx alts in them to help newer players learn and hopefully come into Lynx at a later date.

I don't know GG's recruitment process but I do know they've recruited people I hadn't even heard about before they showed up in GG. This means they also actively find promising people who learn the game at a fast pace.

AHoL will let you in so long as you ship NoobSchool some good whiskey.

Blitz is yet again one of those clans who end up finding people that I had no idea about and turn out to be really good players. Which means they also actively seek those fringe players that can learn at a fast pace.

French seems to allow people of all skill levels so long as they are from France, or can at least speak french and act like they are. They have a lot of skilled players that eventually train more players in their clan.

Those are all League A clans. So I think it's rather demeaning to say "elite" clans don't really help others.

There's no problem with how elite clans function right now. I think they're fulfilling their potential as stewards of the community; that's not the niche anyone needs to be worried about, and I don't get why we're debating about elite clans when they're not the broken ones.

But the big/inclusive clans, on the other hand, aren't really living up to their potential. DARKLORDS could have been an excellent way to just grab a bunch of WL players and really draw them into the game and help them get better. They're still one of the very few clans that's not going to go around commenting on a "Looking for a clan" post with "Yeah I think you should play a bit more"- they're open to casuals as well, even people with no demonstrated aptitude at the game. I think where they falter is internally, though- it's more or less Darklordio's little club that he does nothing to maintain. I think that's where the next big step for clans is- something that's very open with its recruitment, snatches up players, and helps the motivated ones turn into good players; in other words, a clan that makes a tremendous contribution to player activity and ultimately grows the player community.

Edited 8/27/2015 00:20:03

Number of Players Who Were Last Seen At Most 14 Days Ago

1 DARKLORDS 298
2 The Lost Wolves 116
3 The League of Erroneous Aspirations 93
4 German Warlords 81
5 Vitrix Mortalis 76
6 Union of Soviet Socialist Republics 71
7 Coalition Of Role Playing Friends 69
8 The Royal Falcons 58
9 M'Hunters 56
10 Clan Español 51
11 [NL] Dutch Forever 47
12 ILLUMINATI ▲ 47
13 The Juggernauts Clan 45
14 Roleplayers Realm 45
15 [T4R] 44
16 The Poon Squad 39
17 Maximus Trollitus 37
18 HAWKS 36
19 Appalachian Warlight Federation 34
20 {W.U} Westeros United 33
21 [BR] FUDEW 33
22 Time Lords of Gallifrey 31
23 [REGL] The Red Eagles 31
24 [V.I.W] Very Important Weirdos 28
25 Mongols 25
26 Hollerin' Servants 25
27 {rp} The Roleplayers Guild 24
28 The Circle 23
29 Lu Fredd 23
30 [MSF] Militaires Sans Frontières 23
31 Yin-Yang 22
32 The Royal Empire 21
33 Knights Templar 21
34 The New Dacians 20
35 League of Nations 20
36 French Community 20
37 [Lynx] 20
38 {Olympus} 19
39 Brothers in Arms 19
40 {101st} 19
41 Preußen Garde 18
42 SNinja 18
43 Footballguys 17
44 [Blitz] 17
45 |GG| 17
46 VS 17
47 The American Empire 16
48 Tranquility 15
49 |[XS]| 15
50 MASTER Clan 14
51 Hogosha 13
52 The Clan of Warlighters 13
53 The Secret Order of Assassins 12
54 {Vaders Fist} 12
55 Stahlgewittern 12
56 **[KK]** 12
57 [WG] 12
58 Super Cute Marshmallow Gum Drop Warriors 11
59 That 1 Clan 11
60 The Dudes 11
61 The "G " Spot 11
62 Yugoslavia 11
63 (AHoL) 11
64 Fifth Column Confederation 10
65 GRIDLOCK 10
66 Sons Of Anarchy 10
67 |[Creed]| 9
68 [20] 9
69 Incognito 9
70 Apex 9
71 Icelandic Turtles 9
72 United States of Warlight 8
73 The Blue Pentavirate 7
74 Royal Entente 7
75 The Gentlemen's Clan 7
76 The Nine Realms 7
77 OPG 7
78 [ The Tag Alliance ] 7
79 Greater Meteorian Reich 7
80 Lowly Admirals 7
81 ☆☆☆Cavaliers☆☆☆ 7
82 wolfpack 7
83 The Ohms 6
84 The Gladiators 6
85 Statisticians 6
86 Legends 6
87 Divided We Fall 6
88 Mr. Clan 5
89 HYPE 5
90 GGEC 5
91 Marauding Bears 5
92 VÖLKE 5
93 DMC - DeathMatch Club 5
94 T-Bird 5
95 General Chou Frisé's Winter Wonderland Brigade 5
96 [TUC] 5
97 (No Mercy)!Clan 5
98 Horse Guards 5
99 [M4K] M-M-M-MONSTERKILL 5
100 Warlight Masters 5
101 The Holy Atheists 4
102 [UN] United Nations 4
103 After_Dark 4
104 Clam Clan 4
105 Freedom Fighters 4
106 ✧ XCD ✧ 4
107 Cornovii 3
108 The Wizards 3
109 H.A.N.S 3
110 A Different Kind 3
111 Swirve 3
112 Team P 2
113 Silent Assassin's 2
114 LeagueOfChampions 2
115 7th Heaven 2
116 Seven Nation Army 2
117 WarLight Staff 2
118 Young Money Cash Money 2
119 The Sword of Islam 2
120 ᵀᴴᴱᗪᏒᎯᎶᎾNS 2
121 Team [16] 2
122 Inspirational Dissatisfaction 2
123 The IT Crowd 2
124 GeZyS 2
125 Albion Warlight Group 1
126 The Royal Canadian Army 1
127 ᵀᴴᴱ[̲̅p̲̅][̲̅a̲̅][̲̅c̲̅][̲̅t̅ 1
128 |Zen| 1
129 vPopulus.net 1
130 HUNTER 1
131 Tittsburgh Feelers 1
132 Love&Hate 1
133 Voodoo princes 1
134 Bootstrap 1
135 ♆SKY LEGIONS♆ 1
136 Inget stoppar oss 1
137 Pink Dolphins on LSD 1
138 Soldiers of Light 1
139 ONE! 0
140 The Lone Gunmen 0
141 ĦĀĪŁ Η¥ḎṜѦ 0
142 Skype Smilies 0
143 Enclave 0
144 International 0
145 [EU]European Union 0
146 The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen 0
147 The Wehrmacht 0
148 S.P.Q.R. 0
149 Young Money Cash Money Billionaires 0
150 Crazy 88 0
151 MRIG 0
152 Wu-Tang 0
153 [ROTA] Riders Of The Apocalypse 0
154 The Bakery 0

---

Number of People Who Were Last Seen At Most 30 Days Ago

1 DARKLORDS 327
2 The Lost Wolves 130
3 The League of Erroneous Aspirations 97
4 Vitrix Mortalis 93
5 German Warlords 90
6 Union of Soviet Socialist Republics 84
7 Coalition Of Role Playing Friends 81
8 The Royal Falcons 65
9 Clan Español 61
10 M'Hunters 59
11 Roleplayers Realm 56
12 [T4R] 52
13 [NL] Dutch Forever 50
14 ILLUMINATI ▲ 49
15 The Juggernauts Clan 46
16 Maximus Trollitus 44
17 HAWKS 42
18 The Poon Squad 42
19 Time Lords of Gallifrey 40
20 [BR] FUDEW 37
21 {W.U} Westeros United 34
22 Appalachian Warlight Federation 34
23 [REGL] The Red Eagles 34
24 [V.I.W] Very Important Weirdos 32
25 [MSF] Militaires Sans Frontières 31
26 Hollerin' Servants 30
27 Mongols 27
28 Yin-Yang 27
29 {rp} The Roleplayers Guild 27
30 League of Nations 24
31 Knights Templar 24
32 The Circle 23
33 Lu Fredd 23
34 The New Dacians 22
35 The Royal Empire 21
36 French Community 21
37 {101st} 21
38 [Lynx] 21
39 SNinja 20
40 Brothers in Arms 20
41 {Olympus} 19
42 The American Empire 18
43 Preußen Garde 18
44 [Blitz] 18
45 Footballguys 17
46 |GG| 17
47 VS 17
48 MASTER Clan 16
49 Tranquility 15
50 |[XS]| 15
51 {Vaders Fist} 14
52 The Clan of Warlighters 14
53 Hogosha 13
54 The Secret Order of Assassins 13
55 Super Cute Marshmallow Gum Drop Warriors 13
56 Stahlgewittern 12
57 **[KK]** 12
58 [WG] 12
59 [ The Tag Alliance ] 11
60 GRIDLOCK 11
61 That 1 Clan 11
62 The Dudes 11
63 The "G " Spot 11
64 Yugoslavia 11
65 (AHoL) 11
66 Fifth Column Confederation 10
67 |[Creed]| 10
68 Sons Of Anarchy 10
69 United States of Warlight 10
70 Icelandic Turtles 10
71 Greater Meteorian Reich 9
72 Clam Clan 9
73 [20] 9
74 Incognito 9
75 Apex 9
76 wolfpack 8
77 The Blue Pentavirate 7
78 Royal Entente 7
79 The Gentlemen's Clan 7
80 The Nine Realms 7
81 OPG 7
82 Lowly Admirals 7
83 ☆☆☆Cavaliers☆☆☆ 7
84 Divided We Fall 7
85 The Ohms 6
86 (No Mercy)!Clan 6
87 Freedom Fighters 6
88 Warlight Masters 6
89 The Gladiators 6
90 Statisticians 6
91 Legends 6
92 Mr. Clan 5
93 [UN] United Nations 5
94 HYPE 5
95 GGEC 5
96 Marauding Bears 5
97 VÖLKE 5
98 DMC - DeathMatch Club 5
99 T-Bird 5
100 General Chou Frisé's Winter Wonderland Brigade 5
101 [TUC] 5
102 Horse Guards 5
103 [M4K] M-M-M-MONSTERKILL 5
104 The Lone Gunmen 4
105 The Holy Atheists 4
106 H.A.N.S 4
107 A Different Kind 4
108 After_Dark 4
109 Swirve 4
110 ✧ XCD ✧ 4
111 Love&Hate 3
112 Cornovii 3
113 The Wizards 3
114 The Sword of Islam 3
115 Team [16] 3
116 Inspirational Dissatisfaction 3
117 Team P 2
118 Silent Assassin's 2
119 LeagueOfChampions 2
120 |Zen| 2
121 vPopulus.net 2
122 7th Heaven 2
123 Seven Nation Army 2
124 WarLight Staff 2
125 Bootstrap 2
126 Wu-Tang 2
127 Young Money Cash Money 2
128 ᵀᴴᴱᗪᏒᎯᎶᎾNS 2
129 The IT Crowd 2
130 GeZyS 2
131 Albion Warlight Group 1
132 The Royal Canadian Army 1
133 ᵀᴴᴱ[̲̅p̲̅][̲̅a̲̅][̲̅c̲̅][̲̅t̅ 1
134 HUNTER 1
135 Tittsburgh Feelers 1
136 Crazy 88 1
137 Voodoo princes 1
138 [ROTA] Riders Of The Apocalypse 1
139 ♆SKY LEGIONS♆ 1
140 Inget stoppar oss 1
141 Pink Dolphins on LSD 1
142 The Bakery 1
143 Soldiers of Light 1
144 ONE! 0
145 ĦĀĪŁ Η¥ḎṜѦ 0
146 Skype Smilies 0
147 Enclave 0
148 International 0
149 [EU]European Union 0
150 The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen 0
151 The Wehrmacht 0
152 S.P.Q.R. 0
153 Young Money Cash Money Billionaires 0
154 MRIG 0

The Power of the Darkside!