That's all, folks!

Tune in next month for the next episode of CORP Doesn't Fucking Learn From Its Mistakes.

CORP leadership always makes the right decisions... when they run out of wrong decisions.

Edited 9/20/2015 21:55:43

@Panda: my point is that you, Kazuki, Andres, Death, and the rest of y'all shouldn't be anywhere near leadership in any clan.

CORP is functioning well.

knyte,

I was not into leadership since this summer, about my inactivity that you are often keen to remind to everyone, I CLEARLY stated that I would be at least inactive for 2 months for personal reasons, you were warned.

I did not know you were that arrogant knyte, because I quite enjoyed playing and discussing with you, but the way you keep treating us? well still I dont get your point man.

I quite dislike the fact that you say I ruled like shit (I quote your statement about the fact that I was a "terrible leader"), whereas while I was a leader you werent even in our clan or just started to play with us.
No need about being that arrogant, our clan is still fine even without you, you see since the time you were here we lost few players, but thanks to worry about us, next time instead of openly criticize us the best thing would be some constructive dialogue right? I know you are better than that.

It was not your inactivity but rather what happened when you were active.

whereas while I was a leader you werent even in our clan or just started to play with us.

I was in the clan when your incompetence led to the first coup- if you remember, I was the one who reorganized the clan management system into something workable in response. I was also in the clan when you came back, decided you could do whatever you liked, and blatantly violated pretty much everything the GC had accomplished in the months of your absence. You never seemed to know what was going on and instead behaved like a child enjoying his fancy little crown and thinking he could do whatever he wanted.

next time instead of openly criticize us the best thing would be some constructive dialogue right?

This is constructive- I'm telling you exactly what I think you should do to fix your problems:

- remove Kazuki from power
- remove Death from power
- keep Angry Panda from having any power
- remove Andres from power
- reconstruct the entire management system such that you have the minimum number of Managers needed to maintain function and the ability of the clan to deliver value to its members (so give absolute power to a competent, active player like Ox or BigMeck, and then fill in the gaps in their activity by adding Managers if absolutely necessary or building a GC-like supplemental governance structure around them)
- stop being just another clan that sits around and go back to the days where joining CORP actually made the game significantly better for players

Management isn't a title. It's not a position. It's not a fancy crown. It's a job- instead of just dicking around, you're supposed to use it to maximize the ability of the clan to deliver value to its members.

Well that makes sense
Unfortunately it's going to be ignored or taken the wrong way
Nice try though

kung was our leader, michael was kind of the second in command, and semice, i forgot about maelstrom

knyte,

"I was in the clan when your incompetence led to the first coup"

My incompetence? since we do not know for sure who hijacked us the first time you are quite presomptuous and overconfident, however all I see and notice is that under your great reign, you could not avoid hijacks yourself (remember the Achilles case, while I was not here?).

"was also in the clan when you came back, decided you could do whatever you liked, and blatantly violated pretty much everything the GC had accomplished in the months of your absence."

talking about loli I believe? well shall I remind you that at least 5 times I suggested a vote, I recognized my mistakes while I recruited him, because I thought that people were ok with him, since he did not do anything bad at least for 2 months (since I went back), he really wanted to join us again, why not giving him a chance? you prefered to sulk at your corner alongside Des, whereas I many times tried to settle it internally with you and tried to make people decide together about him. What is past is past man, no need to perpetually grumble about it man.

"behaved like a child enjoying his fancy little crown and thinking he could do whatever he wanted."

Here you go too far, I never pretended again to be a leader again, I was focused on recruitment, nothing more nothing less.

"This is constructive-"

At least, not too late, so here it goes.

"- remove Kazuki from power"

why? Kazuki is our leader, and you have nothing more to say since you are no longer in our clan, furthermore he is a busy guy in real life, he is kind of our spiritual leader loved among our community and from where the whole CORP clan theme comes from, and that wont change.

- remove Death from power

Why again? Death with me were the founding members helping Kazuki to revive CORP that we built from scratch.

"- keep Angry Panda from having any power"

Do not worry I have no power, I have no manager rights, and I myself said I was not interested about being a manager again, just contribute in this clan about advising, and helping in stuff people want.

"- remove Andres from power"

Andrés has no power

"- reconstruct the entire management system such that you have the minimum number of Managers needed to maintain function and the ability of the clan to deliver value to its members (so give absolute power to a competent, active player like Ox or BigMeck, and then fill in the gaps in their activity by adding Managers if absolutely necessary or building a GC-like supplemental governance structure around them)"

That has already been done by the Gunjikomon members, and we tried to find this competent and active member, as for now we are all discussing about it and a possible "prime minister" ruling in the name of our leader, as it takes time to find the good person, but I agree on Ox he would fit in my opinion as a good ruler.

"- stop being just another clan that sits around and go back to the days where joining CORP actually made the game significantly better for players"

What you implemented for CORP was a good idea, and we wont forget about your contributions for strategic games, anyway many things and fields can still be improved, since all the previous creations and scenario making of games were not really promoted under your rule.

Management isn't a title. It's not a position. It's not a fancy crown. It's a job- instead of just dicking around, you're supposed to use it to maximize the ability of the clan to deliver value to its members.

Tout à fait d'accord! :)

This thread is proof that some people just aren't made for management positions.

however all I see and notice is that under your great reign, you could not avoid hijacks yourself (remember the Achilles case, while I was not here?).

CORP was never under my reign. Kazuki still held control over the distribution of Manager Rights. Kazuki was the one who was adamant about giving Achilles Manager Rights.

And it was your fault- you were the one who spread MR to over a dozen people because you + Kazuki didn't know how to run the clan.

why not giving him a chance

It was never about Loli. We operated on a vote-based system within the GC. It was about your overriding that system without proposing a vote and thinking you could do whatever you want as if we had no management framework whatsoever. It's the same as PE-ing in a diplo- the rules only exist as long as they're followed, and I expected a lot more from you than to wantonly break them and then remain completely unapologetic about it.

I wasn't sulking b/c of Loli. I was pissed that Kazuki took no steps to keep you in line and that absolute power was not in the hands of someone with actual competence. We knew what the problems were, we know how to fix them, but we weren't going to be able to do anything about them without Kazuki (and you) getting out of the way.

The clan was doomed right there and then.

Edited 9/20/2015 23:28:56

CORP was never under my reign.

And I never pretended to rule alone CORP unlike you pointed out many times.

Kazuki still held control over the distribution of Manager Rights. Kazuki was the one who was adamant about giving Achilles Manager Rights.

Achilles was Kazuki's friend IRL, and was here even before me and Death, anyway for what I know currently Achilles has no longer any power.

And it was your fault- you were the one who spread MR to over a dozen people because you + Kazuki didn't know how to run the clan.

Yes I was the main culprit that initiated a viable and lasting community in our clan and the one who gave MR to some people I trusted such as YOU. And come on a dozen people? you like to exaggerate dont you? the maximum of managers was 7 or 6 for what I remember, for most of the time we were 3 managers before you and other we chose came and joined us.
You did not change anything while you were the de facto leader of CORP, so this is not time to denounce and criticize whereas you were not better for this task.

And I never pretended to rule alone CORP unlike you pointed out many times.

Kazuki was inactive and you exercised control over who got MR. That's the difference.

Achilles was Kazuki's friend IRL, and was here even before me and Death, anyway for what I know currently Achilles has no longer any power.

That's the issue- CORP leadership is based on competence (Ox, Meck)... but also on who knows who (Death, Achilles) or who's been around for a while as a "founding member" regardless of whether they actually do anything.

Yes I was the main culprit that initiated a viable and lasting community in our clan and the one who gave MR to some people I trusted such as YOU.

Just because I got MR doesn't mean your policy of giving everyone MR made sense. Timinator's gonna be in apex regardless of whether they decide to admit everyone- but that doesn't mean all policies that result in Timinator being a part of apex are justified.

the maximum of managers was 7 or 6 for what I remember, for most of the time we were 3 managers before you and other we chose came and joined us.

I checked the night before the coup and there were 14. You just kept doling out MR- I think we had 20+ people in the Gunjikomon Council chat by that point as well.

You did not change anything while you were the de facto leader of CORP

That's quite the bold assertion. If you recall, the modern management system was my work, as was the dojo system (I also got Scorpio together), CSL, CCL, CORP's participation in Clan League 7, CORP finally having good strategic players that weren't named Niklas, etc.

CORP's entire reputation comes from this time period. Even the "Under the Microscope" entry focuses on it- I don't want to give myself too much credit but I think it's sufficient to say I know how to operate a clan.

That said, I was never the de facto leader- I was just the guy that actually did stuff. Kazuki always had the preponderance of power (by design) and everything had to go through him- not me.

If I had de facto leadership power, the clan would've been quite different indeed.

Edited 9/20/2015 23:44:55

It was never about Loli. We operated on a vote-based system within the GC. It was about your overriding that system without proposing a vote and thinking you could do whatever you want as if we had no management framework whatsoever.

I realized my fault not so long after, and tried to fix it, will you continue to talk about this forever? this is an non ending story.

It's the same as PE-ing in a diplo- the rules only exist as long as they're followed, and I expected a lot more from you than to wantonly break them and then remain completely unapologetic about it.

Yes, so why not dialogue while it happened, instead of reproaching something which happened more than a month ago?

I wasn't sulking b/c of Loli.

Oh yes you were

I was pissed

Indeed

, but we weren't going to be able to do anything about them without Kazuki (and you) getting out of the way.

Yeah so here was your genius plan, I got it, you wanted to eradicate me, but you know that was not difficult since I was planning to get out of management, you consequently could have full power and authority!

The clan was doomed right there and then.

Doomed?

Yeah it appears we are doomed, Juq told us that many times for months, and we are still alive you see.

People hijack you for fun!(to CORP)

Edited 9/20/2015 23:51:59

We got hijacked by Femaelstrom who... Ironically... Is still in our clan's council to this day lol

Not anymore. :P

Kazuki was inactive and you exercised control over who got MR. That's the difference.

Actually let me tell you how it initially worked while you were not still here:
Kazuki was the leader as currently, but more symbolic than truly ruling, the rulers were me and Death, so yeah I was not alone, until Death went inactive, so I had to find new people as managers. I do not like to manage a clan alone, and that is not the point.

Achilles was Kazuki's friend IRL, and was here even before me and Death, anyway for what I know currently Achilles has no longer any power.

That's the issue- CORP leadership is based on competence (Ox, Meck)... but also on who knows who (Death, Achilles) or who's been around for a while as a "founding member" regardless of whether they actually do anything.

You know nothing about Death, before he was inactive he was a very active player, and participated a lot in the WL community.
Remember that we gave you manager rights because we thought you were competent, if we only focused managers about the fact that they were the first to come in our clan, our clan would not work as it does nowadays.

Just because I got MR doesn't mean your policy of giving everyone MR made sense. Timinator's gonna be in apex regardless of whether they decide to admit everyone- but that doesn't mean all policies that result in Timinator being a part of apex are justified.

Was I really giving MR to everyone? out of 90 people I gave MR to some 4 people (3 had already MR). I was only mistaken once with the Lone Wolf.

I checked the night before the coup and there were 14. You just kept doling out MR- I think we had 20+ people in the Gunjikomon Council chat by that point as well.

which coup? because thats impossible and I know how many people had MR since I gave them! 14 you say? then if it was during the hijacking it must have been someone who gave MR to some other people or alts.

That's quite the bold assertion. If you recall, the modern management system was my work, as was the dojo system (I also got Scorpio together), CSL, CCL, CORP's participation in Clan League 7, CORP finally having good strategic players that weren't named Niklas, etc.

Do not tell me you never made any "bold assertion"?? "you are a terrible leader", "nobody in your clan shall have manager rights"... Strategic players does not make a clan good, as some people already pointed out, you can have a very competitive clan but it is still dead amongst its community and socially speaking.

CORP's entire reputation comes from this time period. Even the "Under the Microscope" entry focuses on it- I don't want to give myself too much credit but I think it's sufficient to say I know how to operate a clan.

Again making some clan games is not enough to fully and successfully run a clan, you missed the whole social and prefered to focus on stategic games (that you greatly improved as I already told you) but you forgot and neglected many other fields.

That said, I was never the de facto leader- I was just the guy that actually did stuff. Kazuki always had the preponderance of power (by design) and everything had to go through him- not me.

You were the unofficial leader knyte, you were the guy that did something, but remember you werent alone, a whole community was also here, your comment is actually quite selfish, you can't have your cake and eat it.

If I had de facto leadership power, the clan would've been quite different indeed.

Yes I agree on that, it would have been something similar to many clan that already exists, whereas our current clan is unique.

Edited 9/21/2015 00:12:39

Tune in next month for the next episode of CORP Doesn't Fucking Learn From Its Mistakes.

Heh. Also, Koala, you are unsuitable for the fora, you must go through the Vasilevski etiquette gymnasium. We have become more polite here. Stop arguing and start admitting that CORP got avoidably hijacked too many times (5th wave).

may I end your sentence Juq? "Stop arguing and start admitting that CORP got avoidably hijacked too many times (5th wave)... while at least one time I hijacked it!"

you are off topic here juq (as many times), we know that CORP was hijacked so your comment clearly does not make any sense at all.

Edited 9/21/2015 00:26:47

Mfw i leave for 4 days and come back to this.

Yes I agree on that, it would have been something similar to many clan that already exists, whereas our current clan is unique.

Clearly I have no responsibility for turning CORP into a crossover clan. After all, you were the one who was adamant that CORP would remain a strictly RP clan.