We should be greatful that there aren't any bad updates which make players leave, like it was with tibia or runescape :)

you mean like changing the 1vs1 ladder from wr to sr? *cough deadpiggy cough*

What I'm surprised by is that no one's taken advantage of that opportunity to push a CLOT (or similar setup) where it's just the old 1v1 ladder settings. I don't know of anyone else working on anything like that (and my version is going to take a little bit of time b/c college + I'm going to be building it on the not-yet-complete CSL framework).

But we seriously have the opportunity to take the ladder system away from Fizzer's control right now, and I personally think he's going to go with that setup too once there's a solid proof of concept. WL already has the ability to generate a list of CLOTs due to the CLOT verification/authentication system.

Edited 11/1/2015 20:18:07

+1 MoD

Fizzer Brain

Normal things Related to WL updates : moar ppl = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

$$$$$$$$$ = greed

When he is with Mercer : What do u want to do Mercer?

When he is productive : $$$$$$$$$

He only updates stuff that gives him more $$$. So coin games and stuff that attracts more puppies to fill his wallet.

these are both over exaggerated, lets be honest fizzer is does not have a swimming pool of money (or a puddle for that matter) so if fizzer needs to make more money so he can do this as a full time job, than i am fine that a couple of things get pushed back (like overhauls of Diplos, Clans, Ladders)

also +1 Knyte, i don't know why there aren't more clots right now. (and one for the old 1v1 ladder)

knyte: "End the monopoly! It's time for the workers to have victory! Down with the state! We will no longer be slaves!"

knyte is a dangerous Marx-Leninist revolutionary I knew it!

I am not saying Fizzer is doing a bad job, but he said he can live with the money he gets from WL, so maybe he could put just a bit more effort into the community... maybe just a bit?

I don't know whether Fizzer has another job. If WarLight is his only job, he's basically forced to do what he's doing now- try to expand it first so he's got enough money to take risks with. He can't be expected to do everything, even if it's technologically trivial, because users are a complicated beast and he's got to worry about them first.

AOE clan is in the process of solving this issue with a Senate and Republic system of democracy. Senators can get voted out of power in our Elections. Head Proctor (head of the clan) can get impeached. We also have monthly opinion polls so Senators and the Head Proctor know how citizens view them and their policies. The system has its growing pains, but I am confident it will work out.

Clearly you don't understand his point. You can have all the titles you want, that doesn't change the fact that actual power in a clan is all or nothing. Either you have MR or you don't. Also, if anyone remembers the old UN clan or the reason for the founding of LN, you know that having MR being transferred in elections is a TERRIBLE idea.

Edited 11/1/2015 21:26:09

^^ That might solve some issues, but none of those are the core issues with clans. The inability to implement through software a governance system based on the premise that clans represent some sort of political body doesn't seem to be the chief limiting factor in WL clans' ability to deliver value to their members.

@Panda: also, I'm a situationist, not a Leninist :P

Edited 11/1/2015 21:28:47

I think you have to consider the assumption: is a clan a political body. If it is and always has been then yes your point is valid. However, what if the clan as designed by Fizzer was never meant to be a political body (I should specify a democratic political body).

To be blunt, I think that it's incredibly stupid to model a clan based on any form of government. Government frameworks exist to solve particular problems, none of which are inherent in the clan framework.

Edited 11/1/2015 21:51:53

+1 Knyte

knyte, roleplay can be conceived as part of any clan "framework", if they want to copy any form of government and implement it into their clan, they are free to choose what they want, none of us should judge them about this, this is pointless.

I just liked how there was far less drama about clan politics when clans weren't official things.

maybe if u want democracy clan then have one person who dosent rolplay as democracy and just leads clan?

Well, when it comes between integrating a fancy government that allows the regular members of the clan to have the most input, compared to one or two supreme leaders of a clan that give the players the best experience, I choose the latter.

One of my favourite lines of ERB is "It's a country - not a company!" For clans, take this line, but reverse it. It's a company - not a country! Imagine that clans are company based, and that there are a few people providing services for the clanmates, and those clanmates' needs must be fulfilled. If I were the leaders of Illuminati, I'd be thinking "Ok, so what can I do to ensure that Illuminati can outperform any clans that provide a similar experience to us?" Imagine your recruits as your "customers", and you must give them the best WL experience as possible. Better than not having a clan at all, and better than being in any other clan in your field.

When asking CORP members what they like about the clan, one of the most recurring themes was "I like how we don't have to help maintain the clan at all, but still get delivered". Setting up government/country modelled clans, is the absolute opposite of this. Players must actually put effort into how the clan is run, and some either don't have the time, or don't care.

Edited 11/1/2015 22:25:34

+1 Ox

@Panda: roleplay mechanisms are not the same thing as the framework you need for day-to-day operation and growth. If everyone at a company wants to fantasize about My Little Pony, that's great, but it's not worthwhile to remodel the entire company infrastructure around My Little Pony instead of just building a separate RP infrastructure.

@Lolowut: the difference in attitude b/w apex and Falcons helps explain that- before the official system, clans weren't swarmed with the sort of people that didn't know how to play the actual game and just hung around trying to get fancy titles; hence apex has no visible management issues while the Falcons/etc. have a ton

Edited 11/1/2015 22:57:10