Darth Darth,

I am not in his mind, but his words are out there for anyone willing to listen to them.

His words were really clear about Mexicans and Muslims, he may not be racist or not even believe in what he says but that does not justify what he said, when you are a celebrity listened and followed by millions of people you have a certain responsibility of what you are saying, and if Trump here is not even able to take attention of what he says, then he is totally stupid, but I would in the contrary bet he is far from being stupid, and if he used these extreme words it is for some reasons (something I will talk about later in this post).

Listen to his speech. And you left out illegal again.

I also believe he does not think every Mexican are robbers and rapists, but still he says these words, and this was purposely to make a buzz hoping that people would talk about it and make it more popular, Trump is not the only politician to do this, many politicians have the same way of doing things, Former President Sarkozy said not that long ago, that the FN (far right and xenophobic party) was a normal party and that their ideas were actually not that bad and should be implemented in his own party.
You see what I blame is Trump and Sarkozy's way of doing politics, they do not take the seriousness of their words, and do not realize the gravity of it as they are listened by millions of people and how much influence they can have on their mind. I will take another (way worse and extreme) historical example: Hitler. Hitler was elected democratically, by progressively conveying messages of hatred, hysteria and fear (the dire German situation also helped greatly), people started to accept and agree on his words. Politicians should be responsible of what they do and say, Trump has many times derailed and preached hatred with many borderlines speeches. Tbh, he really does not deserve that much sympathy, his hysterical view is dangerous, and this is why the British petition was created, and it is hence totally justified.

It's not giving Trump any credit. It's trying to ban him for his views because the nation thinks he's spewing hate from his mouth. If they would go and listen to his speeches themselves, they would find that he is not racist or otherwise prejudice.

Sarkozy is not racist but still he conveys messages of hatred, why? Because all he wanted was to convince some people voting for extremist far right parties to vote for him instead (but even that does not work at all).
I also believe Trump is not racist but still the words he conveys are part of the very same strategy: as he also wants to convince the ultra conservative fringe and a large Xenophobic part of American people, he conveys message of hatred because he only wants to attract these electors, not because he personally believes in this, and this is a great shame! He is lying to himself. This is part of his strategy, and he is like Sarkozy popularizing messages that should be taken with extreme prudence and circumspection. I really do not need to go listening his speeches to know this.
Now, this petition is totally justified a large part of people in the UK agreed on that, because they are not blinded like some of you are, and see the true danger of this.

And you are outraged about a simple petition, the US is not an example anyway. I remember that in 2003 the US asked to their allies to go with them for the war in Iraq, but guess what many states rightfully rejected it, these countries refused to help the US in this invasion that was perpetrated upon a lie (nuclear weapons) and would cause more damage than anything else (see the dire situation currently). After this, as France was one of the leading country opposing the US decision, the US government under Bush started a vast operation of banning French products, a really ridiculous act and if you consider this petition as insulting and abusive, what about this seriously? Tshh.

I go out of my way not to take things out of context, which is why I am here explaining to you why your thoughts about Trump are not correct.

No, you are just trying to convince me with your own subjective words that Trump words are not what they are, God, then Trump must be the most clumsy person I ever know.

My statement is sound. Those who have signed the petition do not know what Donald Trump actually said and they are brainwashed with left wing media into thinking he is a racist. Instead of doing their own research to see if he is worth worrying about, they jump on the Trump-hating bandwagon and sign on up, oblivious to the irony and hypocrisy of their actions. Any competent Brit should be ashamed of his brethren for trying to ban a possible world leader for hate speech that he has never said.

Oh yes,so you seem to know what thousands of people that voted for this petition actually think, and thus voted without knowing anything about Trump, that these people never made any researches about Trump, and that if they disagree about Trump it is because they know nothing, because of course you know better compared to others what these thousands of people have in mind. Is it again part of your telepathic tricks? Admirable really!

Any British person should be proud of their action, and it does have some echo already in other countries, I hope more countries will make petitions against people like Trump. If Britain started a petition against the French politician leader Marine Le Pen, I would congratulate them again and again!

The UK has banned several people with views the Parliament doesn't find, adequate. It is a shame that the right to petition (which the US also has, in case you didn't know) has been degraded to the point of outright banning people with unpopular opinions.

Gosh, what about the US?

Well let's see more in detail which evil personalities were banned in the US! (most of them are British how ironical!):

Some of the notable ones:

Gerry Adams, Irish republican, later President of Sinn Féin, hero of the Irish War of Independence.

Luke Angel, British teen who sent a curse-laden e-mail message to the White House directed at President Barack Obama is banned for life from the United States (notice this was not 100 years ago, this was today... America land of the free ...).

Hortensia Bussi de Allende, widow of Chilean President Salvador Allende, democratically elected (his only sin is he was a Socialist), he was overthrown and savagely assassinated in a coup by Pinochet backed up by CIA. She was barred from entering the United States when she attempted to do so in 1983.

Other notable British having been refused of entry or banned from the US territory (the list is non exhaustive: Mark Thatcher (son of former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher), Amy Winehouse, Pete Doherty, Lilly Allen, Kyle Falconer， and the list goes on...

So your outraged posture is a pure comedy!

A message for you and other American Jingoists: focus on your own affairs. In French we have a saying for this: “Balayez devant votre porte avant de balayer chez les autres!”, I think the English equivalent is something like “everyone should keep their own house in order” or “just clean up your own backyard” before judging about what other people do!

Edited 1/8/2016 22:38:30

Oh my god you people seriously need to find lives

Banning Trump is stupid, seriously it's juvenile what people say and want these days. Just because you don't agree with him doesn't mean he should be banned, that type of thing should be reserved for people who actually have done something wrong. Everyone is throwing around these ideas about politics on the forums as if it is just all a big game about who's party wins. Well it's not, you must think carefully before you ban someone from your soil. Besides what grounds do you have? " well I think hes racist! ".....seriously that's probably all you have and in an international court of law they would kick you out faster then Trump switches wife's. I hate trump too but banning people simply because you don't like them is idiotic. Seriously go home and read some books on international law.

A message for you and other American Jingoists: focus on your own affairs. In French we have a saying for this: “Balayez devant votre porte avant de balayer chez les autres!”, I think the English equivalent is something like “everyone should keep their own house in order” or “just clean up your own backyard” before judging about what other people do!

F*cking really? Say that to Britain, listening in on what a US politician is saying.

Conservative grow up please. You are not even able to fully read the whole discussion we had, and you talk about International law? Funny boy, do you even know what International Law is? Did you have any class of International law? Because I personally had some classes at University, so before coming there bawling and saying arrogantly that you supposedly master anything or know something better than someone else (example the whole Gun debate and your own superficial knowledge about European socio-politics), try to build a good argumentation before posting would you, see you next time once you grow up a little more.

Edited 1/8/2016 22:58:18

Good god Koala? What are you five? I was simply putting my input into a public conversation. I know dam well about International law. The difference between me and you is when I debate someone, I don't try desperately to make there arguments look foolish or insult them. What I do is try to see there side and justification and then take from that and build my views. Now I don't know why you are so verbally aggressive but I would kindly ask for you to respect my views as if I was standing right in front of you and not a couple thousand miles away. I don't know, maybe it's a southern,old fashioned, American thing but where I grew up I was tought to always do my best to respect the other person's argument no matter how ridiculous I think it is. Now of course I fail quite often but unlike you I rarely start attacking the person directly. So please, I ask you kindly to keep the conversation polite and interesting

I am dealing with a person who can't see past his own ego; I can't believe I hadn't found that out before.

His words were really clear about Mexicans and Muslims, he may not be racist or not even believe in what he says but that does not justify what he said, when you are a celebrity listened and followed by millions of people you have a certain responsibility of what you are saying, and if Trump here is not even able to take attention of what he says, then he is totally stupid, but I would in the contrary bet he is far from being stupid, and if he used these extreme words it is for some reasons (something I will talk about later in this post).

His words were clear. He hates illegal immigrants and terrorists.

I also believe he does not think every Mexican are robbers and rapists, but still he says these words...

He never said all Mexicans are rapists.

Trump is not racist but still the words he conveys are part of the very same strategy: as he also wants to convince the ultra conservative fringe and a large Xenophobic part of American people, he conveys message of hatred because he only wants to attract these electors, not because he personally believes in this, and this is a great shame!

There you go again with that 'hatred' word. What hatred is he spewing? He's brought to the table real problems and ways to solve them.
"Maybe illegal immigrants should be tracked down and taken care of, with a fine if they come clean and with deportation if they don't." "You xenophobic scum!"
"Maybe we should take time to figure out who we have in our borders before bringing any potential terrorist-linked people in." "YOU SCUM! You would deny Muslims to have a good life in America because you hate them and you are a xenophobe! Screw you! We'll petition your ass, we swear!"
It's people like you that make him out to be this way. If people would just take time to listen to what he, and every politician says, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

And you are outraged about a simple petition, the US is not an example anyway. I remember that in 2003 the US asked to their allies to go with them for the war in Iraq, but guess what many states rightfully rejected it, these countries refused to help the US in this invasion that was perpetrated upon a lie (nuclear weapons) and would cause more damage than anything else (see the dire situation currently). After this, as France was one of the leading country opposing the US decision, the US government under Bush started a vast operation of banning French products, a really ridiculous act and if you consider this petition as insulting and abusive, what about this seriously?

And if this were the topic at hand, I would be on your side, because as you know, I am ashamed of people who do stupid things, like economically hindering a country for being against a war, or signing a petition that has nothing to do with British affairs (Balayez devant votre porte avant de balayer chez les autres) with a very misguided purpose of banning nonexistent hate speech.

No, you are just trying to convince me with your own subjective words that Trump words are not what they are, God, then Trump must be the most clumsy person I ever know.

He is clumsy. He's not a good speaker, but he is still able to be understood when actually listened to.

Oh yes,so you seem to know what thousands of people that voted for this petition actually think, and thus voted without knowing anything about Trump, that these people never made any researches about Trump, and that if they disagree about Trump it is because they know nothing, because of course you know better compared to others what these thousands of people have in mind. Is it again part of your telepathic tricks? Admirable really!

I do know better than these ineducated Brits, if they feel the need to shelter themselves from nonexistent hate. It's not a question of disagreeing with Trump, but of what people think he is saying. You don't need to think, because you are able to know if you do your own research and listen for yourself with nothing taken out of context. There's no need to applaud me, I just do what every citizen should be doing: keeping up with their politicians.

Gosh, what about the US?

Well let's see more in detail which evil personalities were banned in the US! (most of them are British how ironical!):

Some of the notable ones:

Gerry Adams, Irish republican, later President of Sinn Féin, hero of the Irish War of Independence.

Luke Angel, British teen who sent a curse-laden e-mail message to the White House directed at President Barack Obama is banned for life from the United States (notice this was not 100 years ago, this was today... America land of the free ...).

Hortensia Bussi de Allende, widow of Chilean President Salvador Allende, democratically elected (his only sin is he was a Socialist), he was overthrown and savagely assassinated in a coup by Pinochet backed up by CIA. She was barred from entering the United States when she attempted to do so in 1983.

Other notable British having been refused of entry or banned from the US territory (the list is non exhaustive: Mark Thatcher (son of former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher), Amy Winehouse, Pete Doherty, Lilly Allen, Kyle Falconer， and the list goes on...

So your outraged posture is a pure comedy!

Listen, man. How many times do I have to tell you that I am ashamed whenever this country does something stupid? I haven't brought these cases up, because guess what? This isn't who we're talking about! And I don't think The people petitioned for their being banned, either. And Salvador Allende killed himself.

A message for you and other American Jingoists...

Congratulations. You have mislabeled me.

People only listening to Trump words are gullible, having an unique vantage is what leads to the current situation with American people here commenting wrongly and defending and even trying to justify Trump speeches of hatred (see Darth Darth).

Seriously, screw off if you won't do research. There is no hate speech, I do not listen only to Trump, I am not gullible, unlike certain individuals who listen only to left wing media telling them that Trump portrays hate, and I am not justifying the idiot. I am calling BS on wrong things. If you have done your research, then you wouldn't be saying this crap. But, you are from France, so I guess you might not have the means to all he has said.
Congratulations, you have mislabeled me again.

Francois Hollande should be banned from America. Guy has the name of two countries, that can only spell trouble.

Now, answering koalas charges was difficult sense it took awhile to get passed all the hate and insults but I think I did pretty good considering how many there were.Apparently, I think he was challenging my knowledge on the issue. Koala, I have spent my entire life reading, studying, and learning about Europe and it's culture and politics. Now foreigners not always get it right when talking about other countries ( for instance your apparent hate for the American system sounds strangely related to The communist manifesto.....seriously I have read it and I think you probably have too ) but I do my best. Granted, my knowledge about history
And politics mainly centers around the middle east and America's however I can have an intelligent conversation with any European about there countries current controversies but The Balkans and Scandinavian countries. Unlike you, I have no degree that has to do with politics but the fact that your first impulse was to cling to your degree as a sign of your knowledge tells me your insecure and thus build yourself up by telling others how gr8 you are which naturally makes me feel sorry for you.

Something I love about this conversation is apparently koala knows everything about America and has the God given right to lecture us on things should be done yet, we poor, little, stupid Americans can't even make the slightest criticism. In my eyes this looks like classic French arrogance

The French are not arrogant, Pandas just a asshole.

And God, 6-10%? what about the remaining 94-90%? Do you find this legitimate to ban an entire population upon the basis of an extremist minority. Guess what, any nation, any people in this earth have an extremist fringe of all kind, shall we ban the French because 10% of them are totally racist? Should we ban the Americans because 10% of them are religious zealots and want to declare war on the World because they think their nation is the chosen one by God? Should we ban the Chinese because 10% of them want to annihilate the Japanese and are still grieving for their action during ww2 whereas most of them weren't even born?

Perhaps I should reverse the question, so you can see the argument from another perspective. Should a country continue admitting massive number of refugees, fully aware that a statistical few are here to cause with the sole intent to cause terror and kill in the country? Admit them when they have no ability at all to determine their status? And what happens when attacks like Paris inevitably strike? That was only by 9 people, at least 2 of which, I believe, came in disguised as a refugee. How else would you as a national leader treat this crisis? Business as usual, and just clean up when disaster strikes?

Furthermore, I am not sure where you found your numbers. As a Chinese citizen, I have not heard of anybody openly declaring their intention to 'annihilate the Japanese,', much less than 10%, which amounts to 140 million people. Nor have I heard of any Chinese carrying out fatal terror attacks in Japan to avenge for WW2. The same goes for the other examples you gave.

So if I was your Muslim equivalent, upon seeing these statistics and has been said, I would indeed consider you as part of a dangerous people that needs to be stopped (this is what you advocate), if I was a Egyptian I would promulgate a law banning every Americans, see how dangerous they are! You see this cannot work...

The fact that a big part of Americans think Muslims are extremists and violent people show how much you clearly know nothing about their culture and history, they just repeat what the Media say...

It has absolutely nothing to do with culture or history...
It is all about action. I'm sure many Americans are indeed racist or indeed harbour prejudice towards Muslims or arabs, but why is this so?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks

How many lives have been lost in attacks all these years, carried out by people who have swore allegiance to various Islamic groups, be it Al-Qaeda or ISIS? How many people have died in 2015 in the name of Jihad? Comparatively when was the last time a Western citizen carried out a terrorist attack in Egypt in the name of Christianity? When was the last time American citizens attacked a Libyan embassy?And yet you still blame people for believing that some Muslims are 'extremists' and 'violent people'?

Like it or not, the Western world is pretty much at war with the ISIS, officially or unofficially. You send bombs and planes to attack them, they retaliate in the form of killing your reporters or sending jihadists to your lands. Meanwhile you are perched on your own cozy moral high ground and giving cliched arguments like 'Oh, not all Muslims are terrorists' or 'They are only a small percentage.' They are true but they don't stop lives from being killed in the name of Jihad!

Oh and you know what, this is not totally wrong, ISIS mainly originates from the disaster caused by the war in Iraq, don't blind yourself, the Syrians are here indeed right when they say ISIS has been created by the US,

I agree with you, the US has created a power vacuum thanks to the disposal of leaders like Hussein and Gaddafi. I'm not sure what point you are trying to say here, and besides, I'm not American anyway.

Edited 1/9/2016 03:17:23

remember that in 2003 the US asked to their allies to go with them for the war in Iraq, but guess what many states rightfully rejected it, these countries refused to help the US in this invasion that was perpetrated upon a lie (nuclear weapons) and would cause more damage than anything else (see the dire situation currently). After this, as France was one of the leading country opposing the US decision, the US government under Bush started a vast operation of banning French products, a really ridiculous act and if you consider this petition as insulting and abusive, what about this seriously? Tshh.

The fact that America did something stupid in the past does not excuse the British doing something similarly stupid. It's also irrelevant to this conversation.

Gosh, what about the US?

What about it? Stop trying to shift the focus. What the U.S has or has not done is totally irrelevant to this conversation. This is about a British petition which is extremely harmful to freedom of speech if allowed to set a precedent.

It's starting to appear as if your main defense in any international debate is to shift blame about how evil the United States is, regardless of if that actually impacts the current discussion or not. Has the United States banned people for stupid reasons in the past? Yes. Do I support that? Absolutely not. If this topic were actually about the U.S banning people over petty reasons than I would certainly express my opposition to those events. However, this isn't about the U.S. It's about a U.K petition.

A message for you and other American Jingoists: focus on your own affairs.

Ah, yes, keep relying on your buzzwords to discredit the opposition. "Nationalism!" "Jingoists!" "Xenophobes!"

Secondly, you should be directing that statement towards those who've signed this petition. Banning a foreign politician for saying something you don't like certainly doesn't count as focusing on your own affairs.

before judging about what other people do!

But isn't this British petition that you're heavily encouraging all about judging Trump for his views and words? You're digging yourself into a hole now.

Should a country continue admitting massive number of refugees, fully aware that a statistical few are here to cause with the sole intent to cause terror and kill in the country?

Yes.

Yes.

Sure, you are entitled to your own opinion. But many people don't, that could be why Donald Trump is gaining so much popularity.

And the US has done awful things. But that's completely irrelevant.

And the US has done awful things. But that's completely irrelevant.

Ah, so you're saying its an act of revenge then? I don't think that hardly matters. A life lost is a life lost, whether it was for faith or for revenge. They are here to kill and kill they do, but you don't care about that - let them come in and kill us!!!

Edited 1/9/2016 03:25:35

And here comes the latest news as I was writing...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3390894/Gunmen-killed-shooting-European-tourists-Egypt.html

Are you a retard? I was talking about Panda's attempt to move the conversation to country morality measuring.

I was talking about Panda's attempt to move the conversation to country morality measuring.

+ A ton. It's great to see other people realize how pointless the international morality contest is. Every major country has done so many horrible things in their history that it becomes redundant to debate which is more evil than the other.