Note: Challenge level 2 was changed today, 9/5/2009. The discussion above relates to the "old version."

I'm curious to read everyone's feedback on the new Challenge 2 - give it a shot!

I became convinced the original version of challenge 2 was impossible. My last attempt to defeat it was to envelop myself inside of AI Australia, maintaining a buffer of at least 1 territory between myself and all other AI’s, and expanding with AI Australia’s expansion. This worked well until the other AI’s ran out of neutrals to feed upon, and then they began to transfer units to AI Australia rather efficiently.

I believe it is possible to win version 2 of challenge 2. Here is a unit income list from my first attempt at winning version 2. I apologize if the formatting is off.

turns -> 9 10 11 12 13 14
my income* 41 50 55 61 67 61
adjacent ai deployment* 28 43 44 63 55 63
total ai income** 85 95 91 91 95 95

turns -> 15 16 17 18 19 20
my income 61 67 70 59 74 76
adjacent ai deployment 55 64 54 57 61 72
total ai income 92 92 92 91 95 90

turns -> 21 22 23
my income 70 79 64
adjacent ai deployment 79 73 60
total ai income 103 99 103

• includes reinforcement cards
  ** does not include reinforcement cards

I abandoned Svalbard S on turn 9 with 5 units. On turn 19 it was taken by a force of 40. I recaptured Svalbard S on turn 21, but Norway S held 163 enemy units, and I could not stop this force. My cumulative luck was -8 on turn 23, and one AI had a lower cumulative luck of -12. For all but the last two turns I had the lowest cumulative luck.

At turn 17 the AI’s still have territory disputes in East Russia, West China, South America, and Europe. By turn 20 all of these are resolved.
AI 1, which starts in Malaysia S, gains all reinforcement cards.
AI 3, which starts in Eastern Kazakhstan S, can be blocked by the abandon in Svalbard S.
AI 4, which starts in Shanghai S, does not make it out of East China S.
AI 6, which starts in Anadyr S, can be kept at an income of 5.

happy hunting

haha, I like your strategy for getting inside the AI. It does prefer to expand as long as it still sees neutral bonuses to expand to.

Im about to give up on level 2 lol.But then again i was about to give up on level one then i beat it in 32 turns (pretty easily).

I'm not sure version 2 is possible either, but I haven't given up trying yet. On my last attempt (~5th real attempt) my income maxed at 77 (without card) on turn 17. The AI had a total of 101 (+2 card pieces) income that turn. I failed to abandon Svalbard S this game. But I did manage to kill AI Africa. I died on turn 35. My cumulative luck on turn 15 was -7.8, the same as AI 1's (Indonesia). So we tied for lowest at that point. The next lowest was AI 2 (Africa) at -1.6. The highest on turn 15 was AI 3 (Caucasus) at 2.9. On turn 15 the AIs had 382 more armies than me. 83 more on turn 5 and 228 more on turn 10.

Anyone else done any better?

Beta phase 10.1:
"Challenge 2 tweaked again: One fewer AI, adjusted starts and abandon card multipler increased slightly."
Guess we're on to version 3 already.

Specific changes:
One less army on each starting spot at beginning
Abandon card increased to 500% from 400%
AI Indonesia (formerly AI 1) removed
AI Caucasus starting position moved from Eastern Kazakhstan to Georgia
AI Caucasus is now AI 1 and uses the reinforcement cards

Are you just going to keep changing it every time no one beats it within a week?

I have no plans to change it any further now. This latest version has been tested much more than the previous two were, and I'm much happier with its level of difficulty. I'll continue to monitor it to see if it needs to be tweaked further, however it won't change anytime soon.

Your list of specific changes is accurate.

I've tried out the previous ones and they have seemed impossible. I just gave this one a first try and I think this may be realistic now. Of course I'll have to play around with it a bit more.

Does the AI ever use Abandon cards, by the way? I haven't seen it yet.

No, the AI currently does not know how to use abandon cards.

hmm ive tried challenge two so many times, and ive come to the conclusion its impossible as long as the computer gets 3x as many reinforcement cards as i do. the best ive done was when i was making like 80 armis a turn.

On the sixth day of the third age, it was shown that the tyranny of the five southern nations could be broken.

Beware of the Parthian upon the white horse, luring and striking from afar.
Shun the Brigand upon the red horse, spreading strife and discord.
Guard against the Emperor upon the black horse, enacting law and levy.
Know of the Rider upon the pale horse, with injury, hunger, and illness he comes for us all.

Congratulations mor! You're the first one to beat it.

And right above your post is someone calling it impossible. You sure showed him :)

On the second day of the third age, it was shown that the vowels of the five great alpha-bits could be eaten.

Court the U's upon the white milk, they're magically delicious.
Embrace the O's upon the red cheeries, it's a honey of an O.
Abandon E's against the dark raisin, kid tested, mother approved.
Forget the A's upon the pale bowl, you'll forget the fiber.
Savor the I's hidden in white, they're grrreat!

Congrats to both Doushi and Mor! I have not tried the revised challenge 2 yet, but heard rumors the white horse-riding Parthians and particularly the red cheerie-riding O's were nearly impossible to beat. Fantastically done!

I see in the change logs you tweaked challenge 2 again (easier). Are the people who were able to beat version 3 going to get any visible recognition on the single player section compared with those beating version 4 (or later..)? How many people were able to beat version 3 before you changed it?

Yes, this post will be visible for the rest of time and will stand as visual recognition. Let it be known henceforth that mor and Dousibag beat Challenge 2 with each of the three starting territories initially starting with 5 armies. (they now start with slightly more, making the challenge a tad easier.)

How about making a new Challenge 2 with the difficulty level right in between the current Challenge 1 difficulty level, and the previous Challenge 2 difficulty that both mor and Doushibag beat. Then we could keep the older Challenge 2 and rename it something like "Challenge 3" or perhaps something more interesting like: "Challenge for the Exceptionally Gifted" or "The Insanity Challenge"

It seems that there's enough difference in between those two levels to warrant another one, and it would be nice to keep the more difficult Challenge 2 version that mor and Doushi beat. I only tried it a couple times but knowing it is beatable is worth keeping it and I would like to try it again at some point....

I desired Randy to reinstate challenge 2 version 3, but I did not want to voice my opinion without seeing if version 4 was a better game, and I never got around to attempting it. Once Elucidar was victorious at version 4, I knew version 3 was most likely gone for good. My interest as to the difficulty difference between the two versions was perked, however, and so I replayed challenge 2.

Version 4 is much easier than version 3, but this is a good thing. Now I cannot talk for Doushibag, who holds the record for version 3 at 33 turns, but I found version 3 a painful exercise of endurance. It probably took me 5-6 hours of playing version 3 before I beat it. It took multiple restarts and I found I needed to take breaks every hour or so, to let my mind refresh, so that I would not make a large mistake.

Version 4 is much better, if you understand the tactics to use against the AI's, and turn number is not of paramount imoportance to you, you probably only need to restart once or twice. This reduces the time commitment to less than two hours. Those few extra units at the beginning let the game be less about luck and restarting the game, and more about strategy. Version 4 is also still suitably difficult, that a player's victory over it stands as a testament to their skill.

Elucidar, I congratulate you on your victory over challenge 2.