accidental double post - read last page's last post

Edited 3/6/2016 06:32:17

What players? The toxic RT gamers who claim everything that is neutral in the map even if they don't border, get booted before the fifth turn and boots anyone bordering them in their first chance? Because the memorable games I have in terms of actual diplomacy style have been played on other maps. The WN2014 ones are mostly just glorified FFAs with a backstory.

Nice anecdote but stick to the substance, you're beginning to sound like a feckless weakling. Color looks bad on diplomacy games. You've given zero reasons why color is more visually appealing. You said color helps scenario builders but I told you why color ruins scenarios because it all pisses away when players start taking on more territory outside of their original borders, and there's less flexibility for non-conventional slots.

Nobody complained about it when OU came out, why would they complain on this one?

No one has to complain - in fact I'm not complaining, I like the map as it is. But you know what, it would look and player even better with black borders.

I read it more like "It's all about opinion. But still, I'm right and you're wrong".

Nice straw man, here's what I got: "I can't understand context."

Like the one that has a colored remake with a higher rating than it?

No one plays that piece of crap. Everyone prefers its diplomacy variant for the exact reasons I've been saying all along: simplicity, single-territory bonuses, and black borders.

You're not even comprehending what I'm talking about; you aren't even making a logical argument. You've simply given a few anecdotes. Why can't you tell us why color looks and plays better on a map?

No one plays that piece of crap. Everyone prefers its diplomacy variant for the exact reasons I've been saying all along: simplicity, single-territory bonuses, and black borders.

Still higher rated than the original :p

You're not even comprehending what I'm talking about; you aren't even making a logical argument. You've simply given a few anecdotes. Why can't you tell us why color looks and plays better on a map

I said multiple times, and you replied by saying I'm wrong and repeating the same argument over and over and finishing with a couple nice words on skype~

make it black

You've given zero reasons why color is more visually appealing.

Why does he have to give a reason for something that is as subjective as colour preferance, probably the most subjective thing that exists. Whatever Imperator picks won't really affect the quality of the map, so the colour of the borders isn't really that big of a deal. Whatever he picks people will still be divided on it and the only thing they can do is agree to disagree.

Edited 3/6/2016 10:08:59

It isn't a matter of opinion whether or not color looks better with diplomacy games. India having one overlapping territory in Pakistan, bordered a different color, looks bad. If you don't believe me literally make a game with slots and overlap slots in colored bonuses.

And no, one version is clearly superior as I've explained, and you literally don't know anything.

God, you are insufferable and arrogant. Color is more attractive; WN 2014 is ugly as shit. OU is beautiful. I made 30 Years War diplos on OU and no one complained about overlapping colors.

I've done several OU templates and everyone was too busy complaining about the slot distribution rather than the colors ;p

I have made 5(?) 30 Years War Diplo's, on a medieval map colored for the medieval ages. Not one complaint. I mixed up slots, I slashed Germany - nothing. And it looks fine.

'Everyone' as in the context of the majority of participants in this thread? No, most of them have lead poisoning. I'm talking about the majority of the player body.

There is actually a good amount of truth to this, Specifically in map of the week discussion threads. In two out of the three times I won, there were only one or maybe two people who said in the threads that they were voting for me.

Now, I'm not saying that I don't care what forumers think, just that it is possible to reasonably take a majority consensus on the forums with a grain of salt as Nitr01 is doing.

However, I don't really have access to a larger player base than the forums. After all, the only meaningful ways for players to express their opinion about a map are:

1. Posting on the development thread before the map gets published. That is, if the developer even makes one.

2. Ratings and reviews, which come after publication.

Imperator I'm trying my best to appeal to you - ultimately it's your decision and I want to see this map maximize its potential. If you keep the colored borders, your map will have less flexibility and players might actually continue to prefer world nations 2014. If you make it black, your map will set the standard for diplomacy maps.

And I do appreciate your thoughts, as they are basically exactly what I was thinking that got me doubting the colors in the first place. I am still skeptical of them, but I have to go with what I've got, which is the forums. Even though I'm well aware that the two groups can differ drastically.

Basically either way I release it will be a gamble. If I release colors and it fails to catch on because most people do indeed prefer neutral borders, well then I just wasted a months work on an unpopular map. If I do release a black version, well it may be popular and people will start using it, but now I have all my reviews saying "ugh why did you make the same mistake word nations made?".

It is my decision of course, but I want it to appeal to as many people as possible, since after all if it does become popular I will not be the one who is primarily playing on it.

Ultimately I don't believe that having or not having colors will make or break the map. However, I do think that it's worth noting that almost every single popular diplomacy map besides World nations does use colors. For example:

Europe Big by Срећко

A Song of Westeros and the Free Cities by Dameon

The Iron Curtain 2.0 by Me... Okay, so it's a bit of a stretch to call it a popular map, but I do see a bunch of people hosting diplos on it.

Occasus Universitas - 1444 AD by xXOmegaXx

I don't think it's fair to assume that it's impossible for maps with colored borders can't be popular. However I do think it is reasonable to assume that people simply use world nations because there's no colored alternative.

Strawpoll on the topic:

http://strawpoll.me/7011205

Another option is for you to just create two seperate maps with one being Coloured and the other being Black.

Basically either way I release it will be a gamble. If I release colors and it fails to catch on because most people do indeed prefer neutral borders, well then I just wasted a months work on an unpopular map. If I do release a black version, well it may be popular and people will start using it, but now I have all my reviews saying "ugh why did you make the same mistake word nations made?".

You can just release both. Make a hued version, and then once that's done, make it greyscale, and that's that.

Edited 3/6/2016 17:58:17

Yes, that is definitely a possibility. I wouldn't want to release both simultaneously though, since this may result in people only trying out one version and ignoring the other, which would jsut eb a shame.

Bumping the strawpoll:

http://strawpoll.me/7011205

Two versions would solve everything.

Two versions will split the amount of plays and ratings you get and add extra effort for no reason.

well then I just wasted a months work on an unpopular map.

It'll never be unpopular; I have at least two threads and two chat games with people just waiting for it to be released to make some games on it. That I can guarantee.

Edited 3/6/2016 19:56:38

Two versions will split the amount of plays and ratings you get and add extra effort for no reason.

It won't split the rating gotten; maybe it will just split how many ratings given, but it would only greaten rating.

It'll never be unpopular; I have at least two threads and two chat games with people just waiting for it to be released to make some games on it. That I can guarantee.

I never knew the low class of Warlight was so organised.

Edited 3/6/2016 21:47:19