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Clan league 9 interrogations about"training clans": 11/11/2016 06:01:12


LeQuébécois_Benoit
Level 61
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Hi fellow clan leaguers,

There as been some situations that happened during Clan League 8 that forced the panel to make hard decisions and sometimes review some of their existing rules regarding Clan League. There's also had a new rule implemented regarding the use of accounts belonging in different clans. I talked about my interrogations with MoTD and I figured I would make this post just to see the point of view of others.

**My goal is not to take over the panel's decisions but just to share my interrogations with others for whom clan league is deeply appreciated and see what they think.**


1. If there are more "training" clans like 101st, Apprentices and GGr, wouldn't that hurt eventually the chances of other clans of division C to get in B and A?

2. The new alt rule, as I understood it, permits a guy belonging to a clan A to join his clan B for 2 consecutive seasons before joining back clan A. That means a guy in Masters could join for 2 seasons in a row Apprentices to help them promote (just an example) and then go back to Masters after the training clan would have secured a spot in division B or A. That being said, if a guy is in 3 different clans, he can't play for clan A, then B, then C and go back to clan A for the 4th season.

3. If GG, Lynx and Masters all do that, that means we could have a division B filled with "training clans" of division A clans instead of clans that are more "independent".

4. Even in the case where the "training clan" wouldn't had received help from borrowed higher skilled players belonging in the Alpha clan, would it really make sense to have a lot of training clans taking over the spots of divisions B or A?

Edited 11/11/2016 06:08:59
Clan league 9 interrogations about"training clans": 11/11/2016 17:01:47


LeQuébécois_Benoit
Level 61
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My post is not making a judgement but more about asking questions. Thanks for the comment semice.
Clan league 9 interrogations about"training clans": 11/12/2016 01:17:37

andy903 
Level 60
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You have to remember that they are still "independant" clans in their own right. Speaking on the case of Lynx/101st, Lynx does not own 101st we just offer to help players when they want advice on how to play a template they are unfamiliar with or on a game they might of lost.

I'm pretty sure if you say any clan containing players who have been taught by players from other clans are "training" clans then every clan is a "training" clan.
Clan league 9 interrogations about"training clans": 11/12/2016 01:41:26


Cloud Strife 
Level 59
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Mhm. I'd be very interested to know who has manager rights in all these "independent" clans like 101, GGr and Apprentice.

Let's not kid ourselves - they are not independent in any way, they are a filter for main clan's recruitment.
Clan league 9 interrogations about"training clans": 11/12/2016 01:50:24


master of desaster 
Level 64
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While i disagree with the "they are a filter for main clan's recruitment", at least for apprentices, these clans are absolutely not independent.

I don't think it's ok to have these clans playing in the same divison as their main clans. But imo it's perfectly fine to have them play in B when the main clan is in A.

Problematic is the template voting mainly. Maybe clans like that should not be allowed to vote.

The decision about who is playing in a training clan is hard, since it can hardly be proven who's who. As long as a player doesn't play for 2 clans also this should be fine, especially with the 2 seasons - 1 clan rule.
Clan league 9 interrogations about"training clans": 11/12/2016 02:12:08


TBest 
Level 59
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Problematic is the template voting mainly. Maybe clans like that should not be allowed to vote.

For me the real question is also whether a clan may be allowed to field two or more teams in CL? Given that you can use diffrent clans for it, why not have a B team?
Clan league 9 interrogations about"training clans": 11/12/2016 03:08:11


Master Farah♦ 
Level 58
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Try to determine what a so called "training clan" is first. I think it's near impossible. What if a division A or B clan creates a clan but doesn't state it as a recruitment clan or training clan? Can we still define it as such? And could you exclude that clan from playing in the same division? It's all ambiguity once you consider edge-cases.
And if you can't define what counts as a recruitment/training clan, you can't make a unifying rule I think
Clan league 9 interrogations about"training clans": 11/12/2016 03:52:17

krunx
Level 57
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Through my eyes two problems may occur due to training clans/B-Teams in same division:
1. Template voting
2. Loosing intentionally

Also have to be mentioned, that same problems can occur, if two clans/players are chummy. You can not completly prohibit such situations. Both problems are caused by the system of the league itself, but stressed by "training clans".


4. Even in the case where the "training clan" wouldn't had received help from borrowed higher skilled players belonging in the Alpha clan, would it really make sense to have a lot of training clans taking over the spots of divisions B or A?


I think "training clans" are a great idea for warlight in general. Warlight does not have that much players (esp. skilled ones) and therefore training clans help to increase the general skill-level. And if one does not want to prevent this increasement of skill by "training clans", one has to give these training clans the possability to competete in events like CL. And why not? At the moment these "training clans" do not harm the competition in CL.
Clan league 9 interrogations about"training clans": 11/12/2016 14:01:17

Phaeril 
Level 60
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Hi everyone.

I think one more time we should inspire us from other game competitions (esport) or sports.

In soccer (or handball I practiced), a club can have as much teams he wants, none of them can be in the same division. This could lead to a lot of problems, duality. Just do not allow that!

I don't see any problem to have recruitment or training clans. As krunx said, it could help to increase the global warlight skill-level. Furthermore, it could avoid bad faith some friendly clans could use by having an official statement.

Nevertheless, it's crucial to differenciate two points:
1) two clans from a same entity
2) two friendly independant clans

In a sport club, a player from a team can switch easily to another team of the same club, sometimes during a season, sometimes he can plays a couple of match or more for a team before to get stuck in it. It's completely different for two teams from a different club!

I think "Tags", "Clubs", or "twin-clans" should be listed, with some different rights, but also possibly different restrictions.

The obvious rules:
- Only one vote per "Tag"
- No teams from the same "Tag" in the same division
- A player from a clan could easily switch from a twin-team from season to season without restriction. (But I think we should not avoid a player to play, even a little bit, in two different teams in the same season) -> and it should be created some restrictions for teams from a different clans... to avoid brain drain by adding mercenary players and finally block some new progressions.

The point is to help the general warlight level, so help the community, and not to guarantee the survival of old and proud (or arrogant) clans. It's good to have a minimum of stability, but it's important to not block possibilities of new communities too ! Here is the point LeQuébécois_Benoit talk about, right ?

More specifically (and it's important!), there should have no possibility to get a "Up" if another tag team is already in the upper division. I mean, for example of this season, if we consider 101st as the same antity of Lynx, they could not get a spot to division A... so even if the team who finally up is another... they get it from 101st... so Outlaw could not up. It could avoid some bad faith by creating a "fake" new team to have up.
Don't worry, it's an example, I would not change the decision about it. But in the futur, it could be some things that could happen and we should ruling about that at the beginning of the season.

But, if a team B goes up to div 1 and the team A goes down to div 2, there is no problem... just a switch and time to revise the status of players inside the clan. ;)

PS: I agree with TBest, a team A or team B is the same that have some training clans. When we asked for that in FC two seasons before, it was rejected... and we just got a "parallele league". But glad to see the thoughts evolve even if it comes from another shape.

Edited 11/12/2016 14:03:23
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