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Gargamel, Ale and others gaming the coin-system: 2/27/2017 18:59:25


krunx 
Level 60
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Gargamel, Ale and others are gaming the coin (and point system) by creating coin games, in which they surrender directly.

Effects:
Getting the price money on the coin leaderboard and farming points. This has such a big scale, that is very easy to find games where they do so (just enter a random game id).

Some example games:
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=13007413
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=13008654
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=13007654
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=12963115
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=12992095
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=12992098

Collected "fun facts/games"
GameIDs from 12991721 to 12992392 (~600 games) => half of them is ALe vs Gargamel

Participating players:
Gargamel
https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=716415378
Ale
https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=7336723589
CandyCaned
https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=6834905062
Honey
https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=1326888856

Lets collect games and participating players - should not be that hard, as this has such a large scale, that you can enter a random id - and show us the funniest combinations/facts.
Gargamel, Ale and others gaming the coin-system: 2/27/2017 19:01:01

#1 Cata Cauda Fan!
Level 51
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It isn't exactly an admirable practice but it breaches no rule.
Gargamel, Ale and others gaming the coin-system: 2/27/2017 19:03:57


master of desaster 
Level 64
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And it benefits fizzer. He should consider to make points buyable on the shop. 1M points= 10$ would bring him quite a lot money probably :D
Gargamel, Ale and others gaming the coin-system: 2/27/2017 19:07:22


krunx 
Level 60
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It isn't exactly an admirable practice but it breaches no rule.


You may be right, but really feels unfair to players like NoMercy who fight for their coins...
I have not read all rules yet and not sure, but my feeling tells me, that there has to be a rule against such a practice.
Gargamel, Ale and others gaming the coin-system: 2/27/2017 19:09:39

Rento 
Level 58
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It isn't exactly an admirable practice but it breaches no rule.


Coins on alts are not allowed, that's one thing.

He's making it impossible for skilled non-cheating players like NoMercy to win a season, that's second thing.
Gargamel, Ale and others gaming the coin-system: 2/27/2017 19:14:04

#1 Cata Cauda Fan!
Level 51
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I don't know if Honey is an alt but the other ones are vertaifiable main accounts. Also I don't think there are rules about the coin season although that is the main problem in it imo other than that it only serves to benefit Fizzer.
Gargamel, Ale and others gaming the coin-system: 2/27/2017 19:21:58


master of desaster 
Level 64
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http://imgur.com/a/aEKCo

This seems the right place for this gem.

Please respect the lottery community. They put a lot of effort in their points.

~1400 active games
~46000 games played
0.1% realtime (50% points multiplier)
Only 0.1% bootrate!! (Truly impressive considering his active games)
50% 1vs1 winrate :D

Please give them the respect they deserve for their dedication.

Edited 2/27/2017 19:22:22
Gargamel, Ale and others gaming the coin-system: 2/27/2017 19:30:58

Rento 
Level 58
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mod, please stop trolling. It's a serious issue, you're making it look silly. If this behaviour is tolerated then the whole coin thing won't be worth shit.
Gargamel, Ale and others gaming the coin-system: 2/27/2017 19:34:59


master of desaster 
Level 64
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Well it is silly if a few players actually spend money to get point which they can't use in any way.

The coin ladder was never a measurement of skill and if it was not intended to be by design. It's an incentive to play more coingames and it's obviously working.

If no mercy want to be 1st, he has to play more till it gets too expensive for gargamel to pay fizzers 10% rake
Gargamel, Ale and others gaming the coin-system: 2/27/2017 20:16:22


Zephyrum 
Level 60
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till it gets too expensive for gargamel to pay fizzers 10% rake


The value is heavily mitigated if not paid off by the coin rewards for winning the coin ladder bonus rewards...
Gargamel, Ale and others gaming the coin-system: 2/27/2017 20:41:12


master of desaster 
Level 64
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Obviously, if gargamel got 41k coins won, he had to play coingames for twice that amount (because 50% he wins). That means, fizzer gets his 10% out of 82k coins = 82$

Gargamel paid 41$ in and will get 40$ back from the coin leaderboard. Good for him.

But ale and candy caned (23k and 13k points/ 23$ and 13$ fizzer rake), will get only 15$ and 4.75$ back from the coin leaderboard.

It will pay off point-wise for gargamel, as long as his mates are willing to pay that difference. Also, if no mercy gets more points, gargamel will be forced to play more to win his 40$ to even out, which will lead to ale or candy caned to lose even more as well as gargamel losing more than he can win.

In the end, fizzer gets extra 82$ out of that fun.
Gargamel, Ale and others gaming the coin-system: 2/27/2017 20:58:34


Phoenix Wright 
Level 54
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I have come to the conclusion that Gargamel is actually a robot, CandyCaned too. ;o;
Gargamel, Ale and others gaming the coin-system: 2/27/2017 21:10:37


krunx 
Level 60
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I have come to the conclusion that Gargamel is actually a robot, CandyCaned too. ;o;

I would not be too suprised, if they use a bot to create and surrender these games.

Obviously, if gargamel got 41k coins won, he had to play coingames for twice that amount (because 50% he wins). That means, fizzer gets his 10% out of 82k coins = 82$

Gargamel paid 41$ in and will get 40$ back from the coin leaderboard. Good for him.

But ale and candy caned (23k and 13k points/ 23$ and 13$ fizzer rake), will get only 15$ and 4.75$ back from the coin leaderboard.

It will pay off point-wise for gargamel, as long as his mates are willing to pay that difference. Also, if no mercy gets more points, gargamel will be forced to play more to win his 40$ to even out, which will lead to ale or candy caned to lose even more as well as gargamel losing more than he can win.

In the end, fizzer gets extra 82$ out of that fun.


Your calculation is not entirly correct:
20 Coins => 18 Coins won => 40 Coins, 18 coins won each , by investing 20 each => 90 reuse, 10% loss (to input) 11,1... % loss (to output/coins won)

41k coins won => 4555 coins lost => 45,55$

So yeah, Fizzer benefits from this shortterm, if we neglect the demotivation effect on other players.

Edited 2/27/2017 21:12:24
Gargamel, Ale and others gaming the coin-system: 2/27/2017 21:14:00

rakleader
Level 61
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I don't think your math is right. 41472 coins represents 90% of the coins he paid to enter games.
If Gargamel spent 10 coins to play two games with an entry fee of 5 coins and he won one of the two, then he got 9 coins.

So 41472 is the 90% of his coins he got back. And 41472/9=4608 is Fizzer's 10%.
Fizzer got 46,08$ from Gargamel, and he will only give him back 40$, if Gargamel is first at the end of the season.

edit: krunx was faster. :p

Edited 2/27/2017 21:14:43
Gargamel, Ale and others gaming the coin-system: 2/27/2017 21:15:49


master of desaster 
Level 64
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Thanks for the correction. Fizzer definitely benefits from this since gargamel is doing this the 3rd season already and i don't think there have been less coin games played by other players since then.

Also, fizzer pays the leaderboard prizes anyways so ~90$ in rakes makes definitely up for the lower motivation of playing coingames for some.
Gargamel, Ale and others gaming the coin-system: 2/27/2017 21:23:17

Rento 
Level 58
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mod, you don't care about the coin ladder, ok, we get it. But some other people do and you should not defend gaming the ladder this way.

You wasn't so chill about my 1v1 trophy, but you are fine with this? Why the double standards? Because you think coin ladder has less value? That's just your OPINION. It has less value TO YOU.

That's the most blatant cheating I have ever seen in warlight. It beats even Belzebu playing against his multiple alts on 1v1 ladder, since he just got the trophy and left. Gargamel will just stay and kill all competition, and pretty much the whole coin system.

Fizzer will stop benefitting from this when NoMercy and others give up on the ladder.

Edited 2/27/2017 21:25:23
Gargamel, Ale and others gaming the coin-system: 2/27/2017 21:44:56

rakleader
Level 61
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mod is absolutely right. The 1v1 ladder and the other ladders are there to reward skill. The coin leaderboard isn't.
Because if it was, it wouldn't only add coins won to your total, it would also subtract coins lost.

The reason it exists is to convince players to play coin games, with larger bets. Games that will give Fizzer more money. And the shiny gold trophy is just an additional incentive.

Gargamel and his lottery friends are doing just that: playing coin games and giving Fizzer money. So why stop them? In a way, Gargamel deserves his trophy since he's doing exactly what the leaderboard was intended for.
Gargamel, Ale and others gaming the coin-system: 2/27/2017 21:50:30


master of desaster 
Level 64
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I care about the coin ladder, that's why i'm discussing here. I find it interesting. I just don't think it's a bad thing because the lottery players get their useless points and fizzer the money

It has nothing to do with double standards. Your stalling on the 1vs1 ladder is irrelevant.

All i know for sure, is that the coin ladder doesn't measure a players skill. If it was meant to do so, the points gained would consider how many coins you lost during the season, not just what you win (while you don't even win that whole number but just 40% of it best case).

If no mercy had a real problem with it, he would have stopped competing on the coin season after the last 2 seasons where gargamel did that. And i can assure you, there will be other coin players if no mercy decides to not play anymore.

Also, did you guys see this?

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=21958

The first coin season gargamel won, he actually gained coins, so he decided to create this with what he won.

Gargamel is definitely great for fizzers business.

Edit: rak was faster

Edited 2/27/2017 21:53:36
Gargamel, Ale and others gaming the coin-system: 2/27/2017 22:10:51


Quicksilver
Level 58
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I find this discussion so weird -

The key point is this: Ale/Gargamel/etc are gaming the coin ladder so to win the cash prizes. This hurts those who want to win the cash prizes.

Everything else is moot.
Gargamel, Ale and others gaming the coin-system: 2/27/2017 22:11:48


Zephyrum 
Level 60
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I think the issue is that letting it happens makes Fizzer cheat us out of a feature here. By Gargamel doing this, Fizzer essentially is bailed from paying the prize as Gargamel spends it all out in the process, effectively rendering the coin leaderboard useless.

It's by no means a big problem or a highlighted cheat, but it's an annoyance and it's there. At the end of the day, as long as people who (should) care like Panagiotis, NoMercy and Krzychu don't complain, it's not an issue that needs work on.

Edited 2/27/2017 22:12:33
Gargamel, Ale and others gaming the coin-system: 2/27/2017 22:19:35


Quicksilver
Level 58
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+1 what Zephyrum said -

Except that I would add that I'm relevant too - as I'm considering to start playing for coins, and the coin prizes are part of my decision.

Edited 2/27/2017 22:19:42
Gargamel, Ale and others gaming the coin-system: 2/27/2017 22:21:39


master of desaster 
Level 64
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Let's play COIN GAMES then! Not to get money from fizzer, just to play for fun and of course for the 400% points multiplier.

Let's be relevant together quicksilver

Edited 2/27/2017 22:21:59
Gargamel, Ale and others gaming the coin-system: 2/27/2017 22:32:04


Quicksilver
Level 58
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You play for fun? O_o

;)
Gargamel, Ale and others gaming the coin-system: 2/27/2017 22:47:11


Semicedevine 
Level 60
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lol I thought of doing that once but then realized I wouldn't get really far with farming the 100 coins I have

I've tested out the theory and found that it's a 10x multiplier

you're essentially winning 10 coins for every 1 coin taxed to Fizzer out of the system

100 -> 1,000
4,100 -> 40,000
10,100 -> 101,000
41,472 -> 414,472

it becomes terrifyingly effective at high coin values since the scaling never changes but the amount of shock and awe does

I imagine this is how people would set records :p

also I have nothing against krunx but because of him, everyone will probably try out this method now in the last 48 hours of every season when the coins go dark

and I won't ever be able to exploit this to my advantage in the future anymore since it's now common knowledge :/
Gargamel, Ale and others gaming the coin-system: 2/27/2017 23:12:19


Platinum
Level 59
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Meanwhile in Seasonal Ladder...

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=12720485

(Why did I bring the seasonal , You may be asking )

Because nothing will be done about this where it effects more people, So why would Fizzer be all of a sudden willing to help the coin game ladder? Especially when three or four Muppets are willing to pay for "cheating"
Gargamel, Ale and others gaming the coin-system: 2/27/2017 23:29:46


Zephyrum 
Level 60
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I've played coin games for super low payouts like 9/18 often for a while, they do bank in massive exp for winning :P Sadly, I only won like 1 game per season...
Gargamel, Ale and others gaming the coin-system: 2/28/2017 00:29:00


Buns157 
Level 67
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@Platinum

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=12889744

https://www.warlight.net/LadderTeam?LadderTeamID=16379

Pana deserves it.

On topic:

See what fizzer says, if hes cool with it then so be it. Personally I don't care what Gargamel and others are doing, they're doing for xp and giving the coins back in tournaments for the most part.

Though I understand some bitterness if someone came 2nd and missed out on $40 or the trophy, if thats what they were aiming for.

Edited 2/28/2017 00:33:09
Gargamel, Ale and others gaming the coin-system: 2/28/2017 00:42:28


AWESOMEGUY 
Level 63
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Plat already knows Glamoflage is Pana though, not sure why he brought up that game unless he wanted to show stalhazi doing the same-old.
Gargamel, Ale and others gaming the coin-system: 2/28/2017 00:46:04


Buns157 
Level 67
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Ah, well in my game versus flage glamourous pretty much admits pana is the one playing. I assumed anyone thinking flage was pana was just speculating.
Gargamel, Ale and others gaming the coin-system: 2/28/2017 00:46:24


Master of the Dead 
Level 63
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When someone was stalling/gaming the ladders, the response was "Blame the system, not the staller".
Yet, here the same people are going after Gargamel?

I don't really care about this issue one way or another, but I do find it a bit amusing ;)
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