And keep the good work guys, the CL never was so interesting and professional than now!

^ I guess this should be said more often.

When nobody mentions you are doing a bad job. You are usually doing a good job.

I don't understand the argument that limiting templates (btw, we already reduced it by 1 template a couple seasons ago to promote depth), will mean more players CAN play in the CL. Clans can already use 18 players if they want to. Nobody is forcing them to slot people at 3 templates now, they are choosing to.


I agree that less templates allowed means more players MUST play. Is that a good thing? Not sure. If you look at WG, it just means we'll have to add more players from somewhere. That isn't a huge deal, as we are always looking for up and coming talent.

The flip side is that if you have a smaller but really good clan (WM, Apex, 20 in the past), you won't get enough players and you will probably just kill that clan entirely. If the 3-4 still active players want to play in the CL, they will be forced to go somewhere else to play. In past seasons, they just recruited more (like Apex grabbing timon or Beren) to have enough to cover a couple inactive people. But if you force them to add 5-6 new players, then they may just fold at that point. Do you want to kill off clans for the sake of forcing depth?

As it was pointed out, most clans use whatever depth they have already, so why force it? WG has always used everyone who wanted to play. I know GG always has as well. This seems like you are trying to fix something that is not broken.

Masters fielded everyone who wanted to play. ONE, turtles and blitz as well. I don't know about french and lynx for sure, but i think they also used everyone who wanted to play. Out of the A clans everyone except outlaws seems to have fielded all players available.

Also, i'd like to mention that masters don't poach every player we would like to see with us :D not sure if not informed or just jealous. What i know is, that big clans won't benefit from a max 2 tournament/player rule, cause guess where the players the "elite clans" are missing would come from ;)

Also, i'd like to mention that masters don't poach every player we would like to see with us

Only poaching (trying to) some of them?

What i know is, that big clans won't benefit from a max 2 tournament/player rule, cause guess where the players the "elite clans" are missing would come from ;)

Hmmm, so for Masters that would be Apprentice, right?

EDIT: Anyway, I think there are good arguments on both sides here.

Edited 6/8/2017 20:11:22

I think 3 slots per player are fine. If you want to award depth, it could be an idea to shorten the duration of clan league and allow to use 2 players per slot so they have less games and can focus on the ones they have.

Yeah current max of 3 slots per player isn't really a problem. I only wanted to jump on WG. :P

That said, TBest's talk about clans' second team reminded me of Developmental League back from CL7. It was a 6-clan (that's how many turned up on it) competition with less tournaments, played on Clan League templates, by CL clans, with players that were not in the main roster playing in A/B/C/D1/D2. Maybe it would be a nice idea to come back to? I think it could as well contain clans too 'small' to join "main" CL but not sure how many could be crammed into one division.

Tbest the only master i can remember we poached was pardon. You can claim we are so super bad guys, but it's a fact that we are just more attractive as a strategic clan than others, so not really surprising people ask us to join.

About the question of where players would come from if elite clans would have to recruit i wasn't talking about masters cause we got enough members. Also we let apprentice be a clan on their own and don't poach from them. We just give them the option to play and learn with top players and don't need them to feed us. Again i think you are misinformed or just salty. I guess i can take it as compliment

Pardon was double-poached :P.

I dont see a problem with taking rising players from other clans. Why should anyone have a problem with that?

If someone is vastly better than most of their clan (i am not referring to anyone in particular here), dont you want them to be in a clan with people who compliment their playstyle? It is like getting mad at a professional athelete that plays for years on a bad team and moves on in free agency.

Of course that clan could get better as well and rise to their level, but you cant be mad at the destination clan for recognizing talent. Most great clans on here are not like [20], which was great players coming together at once. Most are people who are similar and pretty good forming up and growing as a group. Masters did it that way, so did WG. We added a few people along the way that were already good if course, because people go inactive.

Most of their acquisitions were great players who were in clans that kindof folded. Dont hate on them for that.

Edited 6/9/2017 04:43:27

@MoD

Again i think you are misinformed or just salty. I guess i can take it as compliment

Afraid you are the misinformed one here. This is getting off-topic through, but talk to your clan mates as I believe I talked with one of them before. For me it's a thing of the past, but if you want to, just dm me. As I told him, it's not really the unsuccessful poaching attempts that bother me. It just bothers me that you say Masters are not poaching. Obviously I don't know how many masters have tried to poach, nor do I care. This is not about masters specifically, but poaching in general.

@Chirs

I dont see a problem with taking rising players from other clans. Why should anyone have a problem with that?

That is an extremely selfish view. Quite obviously you are taking a player from another clan. And quite obviously that is not well received. Poaching is not about someone leaving a clan, and joining another. It is about trying to recruit someone who originally had no intention of leaving.

It is like getting mad at a professional athlete that plays for years on a bad team and moves on in free agency.

It's like being mad at (insert 'football rich team here') for buying all the good players from other clans. Quite often accused of 'ruining' the sport. Whether you agree with that argument or not is your choice.

Anyway, part of issues of CL has in the past been about what makes a clan a clan. I see the minimum players requirement as part of that issue/discussion that is unresolved. For example a 1 person clan is quite clearly not a clan. How many players is the minimum for being a clan is quite subjective. (Add into the mix of active/inactive and what that means too.) For me I think 10 players would be a minimum size and 2-9 I would view as a ust a group of friends.

Not that I am trying to throw WG out of CL. After all WG has 15 members.

Edited 6/9/2017 13:05:35

you sound like there is a gun hold to the heads of players that swich clans

It's like being mad at (insert 'football rich team here') for buying all the good players from other clans. Quite often accused of 'ruining' the sport. Whether you agree with that argument or not is your choice.

w
is the reason you write the part of it being an indivdual chose "whether you agree with that argument"(sic) that you know that the analogy is very poor, so much that it is hard to even call it an analogy?

It is a quite common complaint that the rich football clubs buys all the talent from 'poorer' clubs. Some claims this benefits the individual players, while others claim this means that a smaller club will never be able to compete with the clubs backed by some rich prince from Qatar.

I find this a rather good analogy of poaching, as the concept is the same.

is the reason you write the part of it being an indivdual chose "whether you agree with that argument"(sic) that you know that the analogy is very poor, so much that it is hard to even call it an analogy?

I don't understand what you are saying here.

the hole argument whit the rich clubs are that they are rich and that theybuy all the players. so really its not same at all. if we compare wl to football, we are in the era before the rich clubs, the era that is implied to be the good age in this argument(normally)

Edited 6/9/2017 16:00:21

Warlight is a game. People are supposed to be having fun here. Why should anyone complain about someone moving to a new clan if they think it will enhance their experience playing this game?

Nobody forces someone to join GG or Masters or whatever "elite" clan. They choose to do it because they think it will improve their experience.

Of course I don't like it when someone leaves my clan go to another one, but how can I seriously complain about them doing what they think will make playing a game more fun for them?

This whole discussion seems a bit silly to me, and quite frankly is getting very off topic.

Edited 6/9/2017 15:59:17

I honestly expected that at least people would agree that poaching was bad. But the last few post has just shown me how deep the disconnect is between 'elite' clans and some of the other clans.

First. Leaving a clan to join another clan is not poaching. I am talking about players who are happy in their current clan and have no intentions to leave, being (attempted) to be recruited by other clans. For example what Beren thinks is the issue: "Of course I don't like it when someone leaves my clan go to another one" is not what anyone is complaining about. They are complaining when a clan is the instigator, not the player.

This whole discussion seems a bit silly to me, and quite frankly is getting very off topic.

Well, this is just how unimportant this issue is. This is part of my dm to mod.

I don't think 'elitist' is used as a joke or compliment but rather as an insult, by some players right now.

As Norman put it in the Div B thread.

As the newcomer to the A division we have one message to all the elite boys: Nobody has invited us but we are there now. Dozens of managers from other clans are gona root for us. You sucked them dry of their best players and they are counting on us to kick your butts. I can't promise them to win but what I do promise is that we are gonna poop the party!

I know some other clan managers have talked about an organized boycott of CL for example. Through I don't believe that will ever happen. As I stated a few times in the thread this is not just about masters, but rather how the '''elite''' clans are stealing players.

This is not about any one clan, but rather that the attitude of stealing players is perfectly acceptable and even the main way of recruitment for some people.

Just please open your eyes. It's pretty simple, and this is my guiding principle when recruiting.
1. Don't approach any players and ask them to join your clan, if they are already in a stable clan. Let them come to you.
2. Recruit from open games.
3. Asking someone to join a clan with an alt is not subject to the 1st rule.

If you think your clan is so great, you don't need to run after players. Just let them come to you.

Edited 6/9/2017 16:42:24

all the players that are happy avout being in there clan but swich at the first possibel opponunity haha....

also if it makes me an elitist to think that norman is fighting a largely made up battle, that not many cares about and looks whiny doing it with thouses comments so be it

also how would you stop the "stealing" of players.... it completly impossibel.

Edited 6/9/2017 17:01:20

If they were happy in their current clan, they would not leave at all. I have not left my clan, despite offers from other clans in which I have a lot of friends, because I am happy with my clan.

My approach to recruiting has always been like this.

1) identify a player in a clan that is either way better than the rest of their clan OR their clan has had mass exodus and they are one of the few good players left. I am not trying to get a player like Timinator to join WG (from Masters), despite how much we'd love to have him. That isn't cool IMO. Those players know they are good enough to join WG, so if they want to move, hopefully they will approach me then.

2) ask them how they/their clan is, how they feel about it, etc.

3) IF they hint at looking elsewhere, I ask/offer. If they are enjoying their clan, I leave it at that.

There are always exceptions, but that is generally my approach. I would not consider that poaching, even if I initiated the conversation. The conversation would not even progress unless they had the same realization that I did (that there are 'better' situations for them).

In the end Beren said it best. This is a game. Players should be in the best clan for them, whatever that looks like. If you want your players to stay in your clan, then make it a home for them that they don't want to leave (whatever that means). Clans that were not 'good' have become good in the past. Those players stayed in their clans, even though I am sure they could have left.

Edited 6/9/2017 17:43:04

stealing players

Players are not commodities that can be stolen. They are individual people with their own agency. If they are truly happy in their current clan, there is nothing a poaching clan can do about it. Who initiates a discussion is immaterial. The player has the final say. They will only leave the clan if they think that is best thing for them. What say should the members of the old clan have over what is best for someone else? If there was something more serious at stake here, then maybe rules could be instituted - by Fizzer - but I said it before. This is a game. We play it for fun.

or there could also be instituted some form of serfdom to solve this issue