You would also have to separate Kosovo from Serbia, which I don't see Loki doing, Flanders and Wallonia from each other, Catalonia and Euskadi from Spain...
In other words, it's a slippery slope, so... Don't. Do. It.

in actual fact they are separate countries under a union and i should no dat because i leave in england not a dutch person saying how they think it is.
also i didn't say a football team make a nation i said if u had a national football team then that means u are a nation.also if germany calls it states countries in translation it dosen't matter.that is in translation that dosen't mean they are countries.
defination of nation
a large body of people, associated with a particular territory, that is sufficiently conscious of its unity to seek or to possess a government peculiarly its own
now wales scotland and england pass that definition

also the un list of countries say Member of the EU.[Note 4] The United Kingdom is a Commonwealth realm[Note 6] consisting of four countries: England, Northern Ireland, Scotland, and Wales. The United Kingdom has the following overseas territories:
Akrotiri and Dhekelia
Anguilla
Bermuda
British Indian Ocean Territory (disputed by Mauritius and Seychelles)[5]
British Virgin Islands
Cayman Islands
Falkland Islands (disputed by Argentina)[5]
Gibraltar (status disputed by Spain)
Montserrat
Pitcairn Islands
Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha
South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands
Turks and Caicos Islands
British Antarctic Territory [Note 9] (disputed by Argentina and Chile)
The British monarch has direct sovereignty over three self-governing Crown dependencies:
Guernsey, with three dependencies:
Alderney
Herm
Sark
Isle of Man
Jersey

4 countries it says now u said i quote:So my definition of a country is a place in the world with population, land area, a government, has been recognized by more than 50% of the UN, and is a member of the UN itself.
now the uk is in un so it means they are in together
they must be recognized by more then 50% if it says 4 countries also my geography teacher agrees with me.

http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/europe/uk.htm a very influential geography site agrees the uk is union of 4 nations not a singular nation

What does my nationality have to do with this discussion? I could also have been Australian or Monagaskian and it wouldn't matter. What I am trying to say is that Scotland has great independence from the UK, but that doesn't make it equal to France or Romania. And Scotland didn't join the UN, the UK did. That's like saying Manchester joined the UN, or a certain street, or your backyard joined it.
And one question, if Scotland is a single country, are the 50 american states all countries of them own? Don't say that in the face of any american!

And what about North Cyprus? Only Turkey recognizes it, so I wouldn't add it.

Guys, a couple observations:

• It's highly unlikely either one of you will succeed in convincing the other is right.

• It doesn't matter either way; sorry to be blunt about this, but your opinion (and mine, for that matter) barely matters, only L0KI's opinion matters, it's his map after all!

• You are getting very far off-topic here; as far as I care, this thread is supposed to be about the map "Big Europe" (that's what the topic of the thread suggests at least...).

Can we please all:

• "Agree to disagree".

• Let L0KI decide on the matter and live with whatever decision that turns out to be.

• Return this thread to slightly more constructive criticism.

Thank you!

I'd say we're not trying to convince each other, but we're both trying to convince Loki.
:)

@Ironheart

From the same site as you used:

Regarding England, Scotland and Wales, though all are widely considered individual countries, they are all still a part of the United Kingdom (UK), a recognized European country by the United Nations, United States, and others, and therefore included within the United Kingdom on our country list below.

http://www.worldatlas.com/nations.htm

Not before I say that Ironheart's definition is totally impractical. Any group of people can use that definition to claim it is a country. Again: slippery slope.
Also, I just keep finding the line "I leave in England" a little suspicious, and, like Moros said, claiming you know better because you live there is a mad disposition. I can try and convince you that the Netherlands are governed by a Chief Leprechaun from a Limburger marsh, but it's false and any foreigner has every right to say so.
Your story is of course not a lie, let alone such an obvious one, but your current location is not a knock-down argument.

Also, I just keep finding the line "I leave in England" a little suspicious, and, like Moros said, claiming you know better because you live there is a mad disposition.

Ah few years ago, I was in the US. Talked to some guy (maybe 17 or so), who of course was curious where I'm from. So, obviously, saying "The Netherlands" doesn't ring a bell. Mentioning "Amsterdam" on the other hand did... :(
His next question "Where is Amsterdam anyway?". Not thinking that "North of Belgium" stood much of a chance I went with "Between Germany and England". His reply? Completely sure of himself, not a trace of doubt: "There's nothing there!".
The moral of this story Domenico, "Seriously man, take my word for it, I live there!" counts as a pretty strong argument in my book. :p

<ontopic>I'm curious when L0KI is gonna make his next big update. For one, I'm kinda curious which regions he divided The Netherlands in. Secondly, I want to make sure we got more regions than Belgium. *evil grin*</ontopic>

RvW, the problem is with size.. many non-americans I speak with won't recognize what I mean when I say Kentucky... but considering that the US is nearly the same size as Europe.. expecting Americans to know where each european country is located, is similar to expecting Europeans to know where every US state is located..

Keep in mind, I'm not defending our ignorance, just putting it in perspective as according to land size and relative number of locations
48 continental US states taking up 9,631,418 km² / 3,718,711 sq mi
50 European Countries taking up 10,390,000 km² / 4,010,000 sq mi

that being said.. I agree that saying you live somewhere will tend to give greater knowledge of the area, because it is more relevant to you personally.

putting it in perspective as according to land size and relative number of locations
48 continental US states taking up 9,631,418 km² / 3,718,711 sq mi
50 European Countries taking up 10,390,000 km² / 4,010,000 sq mi

That makes "expecting Americans to know where each european country is located similar to expecting Europeans to know where every US state is located"? Let's see...
31 regions of mainland China take up 9,671,018 km²
83 subjects of the Russian Federation take up 17,075,400 km²
But I'm sure average American can name more European countries than Chinese provinces or Russian oblasts, just like any man in the world usually knows more about world's geography than about administrative division of just one country, no matter how big it is in terms of land size, or population, or whatever else.

<ontopic>And before discussing subdivision of the United Kingdom on the map, maybe it's better to first wait for UK to actually appear on it? Right now it's only at minimap, and minimap itself is a work in progress, so what to argue about?</ontopic>

The reason I said "leave in England" is that Ironheart said "leave".
And if you agree with him that he knows best because he lives there, then that would mean that if I move to, say, Djibouti now, I'd suddenly turn into a Djibouti expert and would, according to you, know more about it than someone who has just emigrated to the Netherlands from Djibouti.
Weird...

Perrin, I don't really think it's that crazy to expect people (at least Westerners) to know where most countries in Europe are located. Then again, maybe that's the problem. I know I certainly don't know all of the provinces of China, only the good ones (heyo!)

I think I could give 30 or maybe 40 states from the US, but no more. And most of my knowledge on that subject has increased greatly since I first started playing the US big map :)

ok moros my words have been misinterpreted and i tink i have stayed far from my piont my point is to save arguments in the about why scotland is not in the map in case loki dosen't edit i say7 we should just add the 4 countries of uk as individual bonuses.
Also your agruments about 50 countries in usa and 36 countries in Germany is makes no link to the argument for they different system to a constituency which the uk is.
Also moros let us agree to disagree for territories and sovereignty will always be disputed and let us leave that to their ambassadors,emissaries and peace envoys cause will are just players looking forward to playing a sick map.

also loki could make sub bonus of england wales scotland and northern ireland don't put it on the bonus map dat way me and moros both win pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase.

about the i live there argument in most places the person that lives there knowes more than the foreigner

can't wait for ur next update loki