Then they're not communist, they're fascist...

Hellbender - read a bit about different systems of the state - do it BEFORE you post or you will sound more and more stupid.

Lolowut - it's neither communism nor fascism. However Russia's damn close to fascism indeed.

Pulsius - your maps don't include many minorities like for example polish.. but the maps' pretty good at showing what i meant anyway..

Pulsius - your maps don't include many minorities like for example polish..

I'm so sorry for leaving these important parts away :'(

Edited 2/22/2014 20:04:35

In the end, Putin will get 'his' way with 'his' idea of this Greater Eurasian Co-Pauperity Sphere - and the world will have become an even shittier place to live for many people (if you haven't noticed, this is quite a trend in this millenium so far). Why? "fuck the EU", that's why.

The EU, evidently, is far less imterested in post-Imperialism than Russia is, esp. if it is for reasons other than money, that is esp. in the case of a country as strategically/economically insignificant as the Ukraine. It's simply not important enough a country to be worth the effort and/or beef with the Tsar.

See, the Russian Government doesn't have this much of a problem with austerity than many European Governments do because most Russians haven't known anything but austerity for their entire lives. So everyone's favourite KGB asset has it much easier when it comes to worthier goals than providing for 'your own people' - goals such as national prestige, regional hegemony, etc.

Don't think so? Remember the 90s and Yugoslavia? Rwanda? Or, yeah, what about this one country in the Levant somewhere... what's it called again? Doesn't matter really, but I've heard it has become quite a shithole over the course of the last three years...

The question is only: will the Ukraine get the Belorussian or the Georgian treatment? Or will it be the Syrian one?

@Fridge: I'm not really declaring what government they are, it's just what Hell Bender specifically said is fascist, not communist. I'm aware Russia isn't completely fascist yet, but I'm sure eventually that they will get there though.

Bosnia is also up in flames if anyone really cares. Whatever happens, the president that the United States has right now would be unable to properly take a serious action in this issue. From what you guys are talking about the EU looks like they're also going to pussyfoot the situation. A real shame. Guess Russia wins this one.

Edited 2/22/2014 21:09:28

526 WikiLeaks cables referencing #Yanokovych - http://is.gd/d5is6W

Pulsius has a very good point and has proven it very well ... anyways i believe we should support the rebels in the case of a civil war

I agree. Aside from Ukraine itself, Russia has the most to gain or lose. Why is Ukraine important to Russia: pipelines, naval base, Russian Ukrainians (Russia's population is declining, so maybe Russians in Ukraine have special meaning to Russia), geographic proximity, cultural and linguistic similarities, investments, Russian mafia in Ukraine, Ukraine already joined Russia's sphere of influence (this is what started the protests, so a volte-face would be a huge loss of face, and after the glorious Sochi games, I doubt Russia will accept such a diplomatic failure).

The big questions: What will Putin do? How far will the Party of the Regions and Yanukovych go? How widespread will the opposition's support be as this plays out? What will the US and EU do?

Edited 2/23/2014 01:45:27

The Yanukovych argument for closer ties with Russia has been an economic argument: The EU has not offered us anything to help us immediately, Russia has. Sure, there is certainly more to it than that. But if the US and/or EU could offer a competitive aid package in addition to a path to eventual EU membership, the Yanukovych types would have to show their cards.

It is sad really. Ukraine should be able to have close ties with Russia, the EU and the US, based on what the Ukrainians want.

At this point, I'm inclined to support a division of Ukraine into two distinct states. After all, a real nation has a common history, culture, and language. With east and west Ukraine, this is not the case. They have no common interest, so each should be allowed to go their own way.

Otherwise there will be long-term trouble, like in Spain (Basques), Belgium (Flemish and Vallones), UK (England, Scotland, North Ireland), Russia (Chechens etc).

http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/.premium-1.575775

Edited 2/23/2014 03:09:43

Ukraine was, is and will be part of Russia
deal with it

Why do people blame brussels? Why do they think Belgium doesn't exist? We don't have the charisma of a damp rag and appearance of low grade bank clerk! Then people ask 'How are we?' well It seems like nobody in Europe has ever heard about us? just that little country Belgium. Well I didn't vote for the extrem right party!Is this democracy? Well it isn't ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bypLwI5AQvY

The worst case scenario (and the most probable at this Point9, is if Russia deciedes to go in with Military, as they did in Georgia 2008... This is a really scary situation right now

A real nation can exist as a will nation too, if you look on Switzerland with his completely different languages, cultures and history of their parts.

In the Ukraine it seems for me to lack of a will for to find a middle-way between the political positions of west and east. If they can't find a middle-way, which involves both sides and everyone can be happy with it, the ping-pong-politics will fail. The russian and european plus american contrasting positions doesn't make it better. What if the east part manages to take back the power again? Shall the country be lead from now on just in the way which is right for the west? Then a division would be necessary for the health of the peoples..

Edited 2/23/2014 11:12:56

Will nations can exist, at least if they make effort to put their differences aside. How that will play out long-term is still questionable.

Switzerland just voted to limit immigration to their country because they have problems with their growing minorities.

Party of the Regions: Janukovych has betrayed and plundered Ukraine.

For Ukraine’s revolutionaries: Beware a Russian backlash: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/bd40afe2-9c93-11e3-b535-00144feab7de.html#axzz2uA3h0Gfc

Edited 2/23/2014 16:08:04

[The vote was about to end or replace a single treaty with EU about european immigration. The aim is nearly to restore the situation as it was before and it is actually with every other states from other continents. There are no consequences for non-european peoples. It's no vote against minorities. It is against endless growing economy with building on cost of nature. The economy can't grow without more immigration since the birth amount of inhabitants (inclusive foreign peoples) is too low. Probably it can be viewed too as "**** the EU", ending relations with them -> meaning the political less democratic system. Personally i'm wondering about the EU when they are calling for democrazy in the Ukraine while they won't come clear with it in negotiations with Switzerland]

A russian backlash.. Is this necessary?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/ukrainian-parliament-after-ousting-president-tries-to-consolidate-power-frees-prisoners/2014/02/23/9246255c-9ca6-11e3-9080-5d1d87a6d793_story.html

"On Sunday, U.S. national security adviser Susan E. Rice warned that Russian troop intervention in Ukraine would be a 'grave mistake.' "

Otherwise there will be long-term trouble, like in UK (England, Scotland, North Ireland),

Yeah, like those English separatists. Always trying to wrestle power back from, uh ... wales. And the SNP are fucking terrifying, I'm scared to walk the streets at night with those guys always, uh ... standing for elections in Scotland.