"i think that's not completely right. a top 50 Player can easily get a top 3 rank when he stalls a few games. i joined the ladder, beated 15 Players and took rank 3."

That seems very exaggerated.

Give Pulsey 4 losses in a row right now, one against all of his current opponents, he then drops to rank 25, still well within the top 50. No one who goes 15-0, even with stalling, should ever drop as low as rank 50.

Also: " but i had only 3-4 serious fight under my first 15 games." very much varies.

Here's a breakdown of the first 15 games I played on my last ladder attempt.

I'll use the categories sze created above:

1) Played 1 > 2000 players
2) Played 9 > 1700 players
3) Played 1 < 1550 players

10 of my first 15 opponents had 1700+ ratings (1800+ actually as well) only one 1 was 2,000+ though. There were 3 that were between 1550 and 1700, 1 that was under 1550, and then 1 I have yet to list. The thing that really, really can throw the matchups askew is when game 1 is against someone with a rating of 0.

http://www.mail.com

^ right there you can get literally 1000s of email accounts that you can access to register for warlight or anything else. Adding some kind of email check won't discourage anyone when it's so simple to get a legit mail account.

Also to OP:

Lolowut, I said there are other options, as well. Set up enough roadblocks and the masses will go home.

I think we can very soon make an announcement that 1v1 ladder became a real joke.

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Ladder is a bs

I absolutely do not agree with these!

Ladders are magnificent ideas!

Ladders are admirable possibilities for players to play against similar strength players continuously in an easy way! This is the point, I think.

Additionally, if a player plays enough games before expiration time (so not only the minimal 15 but much more without stalling) the ladder will show his circa skill level too. So based on his ladder performances, we can roughly put him into a skill category, but that's all.

The Ladder is (and never been) not suitable for ranking system!
The Ladder rather is more similar to the different tourney series, it is a challange like those.

And "simple" change the ELO counting method behind the ladders is not solved this, the ladders still not will be suitiable for ranking system! Remain "only" special (neverending) tourney series (with their exploitable leaks).

A legal ranking system is more complex than a "simple" challange.

And we can wait for Fizzer (asking him seriatim) to develop this legal ranking system but we shouldn't.
We shouldn't because of more reasons:
- Fizzer has limited time to develop Warlight (it seems)
- The very competitve (pro) Warlight community whos need this system is very small compare to the whole Warlight community, therefore I don't think so that Fizzer will develop this and not other features which more useable by the whole community.
- Maybe Fizzer himself is not enough competitive so he doesn't want to develop Warlight in that direction officially, I don't know :)

But I am 100% sure that this relative small pro community can be "develop" themselves a proper ranking system, just want it to be...

And when I wrote "develop", I didn't mean scripting (CLOT development or something like that), I mean simple google docs, forum topics, etc., not necessary more, I think!

However, what is needed that these pro community wants to develop this ranking system!

I had an attempt earlier (Warlight eSport Association (WeSA) - http://warlight.net/Forum/Thread?ThreadID=11364), which failed (I hope) only because my nickname is so light in warlight community and the lack of time to make (and present) it solely.

I still think, if the pro Warlight community decide that they make a ranking system, it will be an easy ride enough.

There are many-many possibilities!
We can eaasy adapt exist professional systems like the ELO ranking system in chess, or ATP ranking system in the tennis, etc.
And we already have many gorgeous tourney series, we only should merge them under a common ranking system!
And we really needn't difficult scripting, enough to use simple google docs and forum topics.

So write again, we only needed that the pro Warlight community want a proper ranking systems, and need some persons who has got the proper time to manage this system (making the adminsitrative tasks).

Unfortunatelly I am not that person (not enough time :( ), so I can only kindly ask somebodies from the pro community to make a proper ranking system, please, please, please :)
I can help them with my ideas (I had a lot :) ) in a braintsorming format for example.

And yes Piggy, again me, again my favorite topic :P

The Ladder is (and never been) not suitable for ranking system!

Exactly my point.

And "simple" change the ELO counting method behind the ladders is not solved this, the ladders still not will be suitiable for ranking system!

Yes it will :) Current problem is, that many people play 15 games once/3 months giving themselves a rating few hundred points higher than their real is. With TrueSkill without expiration or with using 15 chronologically sorted games that problem vanishes.

No, it won't :)
There will be always exploitable leaks in a ladder system, I think.

Example?

I need to (deep) know the system before I find the exploitable leaks :P
So give us the details of the perfect ladder system, and somebody will find those leaks, I am sure :)

I don't really know the Real Time ladder (which use TrueKill system), but for example what about if you join only that time when only weak players are online (avoid the strong opponents)?
Or play only againts your alts?

Ladder is a bs, and so is Ekstone's reply.

The ladder is clearly a flawed system for comparing players. For example; with no new games being finished by either player player A can be ranked higher than player B, then a few hours later be ranked lower, then a few hours later ranked higher again. Neither of their skill level's have changed over those hours and yet the ladder tells us that it has. The ladder cannot be correctly assessing both players.

Anyone who considers a ladder rating or ranking correlative to skill is misguided. Comparing oneself to others by a common measuring stick is foolish. You can only use the ladder to compare your past performances with each other.

Edited 4/29/2014 13:10:18

Skill is not a linear measurement. A player can do well one game and terribly the next. It would be difficult to create an accurate ranking system to compensate for these variations between games, which is why some system choose to go for a median skill range, such as TrueSkill.

The problem with TrueSkill is the very thing that Sze likes about it so much; it doesn't expire.

A player who hasn't been on the ladder for 3-4 months will have the same rating as before, but might not be at the same skill level. Naturally, after playing a few games, his rating would drop, but at the time he played his rating was higher and he would have been paired with players of near-equal rating, which would have been inaccurate.

Also, this isn't Chess and WarLight isn't as popular or well known as Chess, so we can't be so choosy about players who enter the ladder or block higher rated players from competing outside their rates for easy points. What would perhaps be more interesting is a feature that shows longest time held in their top ranked position, among many others (ideas).

In any case, there should be a number of updates and fine-tuning to all the ladders to make them more interesting and more accurate, but whining about it instead of providing some sirius research and actually aiding Fizzer instead of berating him, only plays the holier-than-thou route and doesn't change anything.

“Gardens are not made by singing, “Oh, how beautiful,” and sitting in the shade."
-Rudyard Kipling

Stop singing people, my ears are bleeding.