Thanks Lolowut for your contribution, but you still didnt answer my question. Unfortunately it's hard to reply on your confusing facts which seem to lack in any context. Im sure its better to not go further into it.

@ szeweningen
the five-year old seem to made you curious enough, with this infantile headline of this ridiculous theme, to read the entire thread and most fortunately you also made a mature comment in the end. I very much appreciate that^^

Edit: Bob, whats wrong with the thread? =)

Edited 6/17/2014 00:05:17

Ranek, again I already answered you talking about how our standard of living (rank 4) and economy are high. Consider how large our country is (314 million people) and the fact we lack a lot of the socialist/communist policies that are supposed to raise the standard of living, it's quite impressive. Other than that it's hard to describe what makes America #1 because it all depends on what your preferences in a country are. Militarily, we're #1. Economically, we're #1. How do you quantify socially? There are rankings of which America isn't #1, but I enjoy the social policies I live under in Texas, so to me the social policies in Texas are #1.

Also, if you are confused on the facts I posted, I can link you sources and books to read to clarify.

@sze

While the economies and cultural structures of these relatively ancient empires and nations may not utilize the same technology or knowledge as today, the basic principles that dictated the course of said economies and cultures is the same as those that dictate the socioeconomic conditions of most major powers today.


As to the U.S.'s economic relations with China:

China's economy is indeed approaching the economy of the U.S., but most all of the world's leading economists agree that China's strategy of a massive class separation is unsustainable in the long-run. The U.S. is indeed dependent, currently, on the manufacturing capabilities of China, but so too, as many people overlook, is China's manufacturing machine dependent on trade with the U.S. In all likelihood, it is only a matter of time before China's economic strategy comes back to bite them and their economy will begin to fall.

Looking back again to history's lessons, I am not foolish enough to think that the U.S.'s economy or culture will last any more than a couple of hundred years. Especially in this more internationally communicative climate, the U.S. will certainly begin to fall soon enough. I don't want to send the message that I believe this nation will last for a thousand generations or anything silly like that, but it takes an enormous fall to cause a runner with a 3000 meter lead to fall back to second place in a marathon.

Edited 6/17/2014 04:31:28

Thanks Lolowut for your patience

Other than that it's hard to describe what makes America #1 because it all depends on what your preferences in a country are. Militarily, we're #1. Economically, we're #1. How do you quantify socially?

we could start with some basic stuff like: state health insurance, human rights, imprisonment per head, armed civilians, racial discrimination, state legalized torture, imprisonment without trial, capital punishment, state legalized murder abroad, TTIP, International Investment Agreements, genetic manipulated food and super resistent pests due to overbred monocultures, creationism in science-teaching, NSA CIA affairs, police-state surveillance

All of what you said are different per state. Texas has cheap health insurance that I could afford with a simple job due to realty being also cheap. Human rights is fine. Imprisonment per head differs from State to State and City to City. I see nothing wrong with armed civilians. Racial discrimination, we seem to shovel a lot of money over to minorities. I'd rather racial equality. Isn't this situational? It's a major gray area and slippery slope, so it depends how well it's handled. Again, gray area/slippery slope. Another thing I'm fine with. I don't understand this one, please supply some context. What's your beef with this? I guess you view some of these positively, but it all seems negative. Again dunno what your beef is with this. Mistakes happen in science all the time, this isn't specific to America. Give it a couple years and a solution will be found. I was taught evolution in my school and I live in Texas. It varies. People will wise up eventually. You're fooling yourself if you don't think every government does this to some extent. It's good and bad, but it will be scaled down. Good and bad, it's very hard to stop this sort of surveillance given the level of our technology. Cell phones are easily traceable, so is your FB and etc. etc. Drones should be taken out of the equation, but then again satellites are still there. It's all a mess atm for every country.

Notice how all this is debatable to some extent? You can't quantify emotions and opinions. I may have an opinion that the US Military is not #1, but that opinion doesn't matter because it is the biggest military with the biggest budget and the most updated technology.

Social policy is all opinion based. Capital punishment may seem like a terrible thing to you and may have scientific evidence proving that it is not the most efficient path to go, but I think it's a fair punishment given the circumstances it is called for whether or not it's an efficient path socially.

While the economies and cultural structures of these relatively ancient empires and nations may not utilize the same technology or knowledge as today, the basic principles that dictated the course of said economies and cultures is the same as those that dictate the socioeconomic conditions of most major powers today.

Yeah, very true, except a few minor details like, financial markets, transfer of capital, financing structure, fiduciary credit, banking system on massive scale, different consumption structure, different production structure, trade on a massive scale, currency volatility, central banking and Game of Thrones. Other than that, it's basically the same thing.

>lolowut and sze posting in this flamebait topic
>talking about contemporary social issues
>being wrong
>2014

Gentlemen youre looking so basic right now. Why dont you stick to what youre good at?

Haha. Dead piggy has had enough of this pseudo-political science.

Remember, the world is economically interconnected. Most things "produced" in China are so because current WTO rules and regulations determining which country gets credit for "production" are based on where final assembly takes place. So, a phone with over 200 parts from South Korea, Japan, European countries, Australia, Taiwan, etc. and whose IP could be from the US is "produced" in China because the other countries ship their parts to China to exploit the low costs of production (wages, land, environmental laws, etc.).

But just as China has been a magnet for FDI, as China develops more and wages continue to rise, Chinese will make more demands about ever higher wages, protecting the environment will become a greater priority, free land or subsidized land given from the great landowner (CCP) to the companies will become more scarce, Chinese IP theft and espionage will continue to become more advanced, and eventually the magnet will turn over and repel FDI. FDI seeks stable countries where production costs are relatively low, where labor is relatively manageable, and where transportation is relatively predictable and cost-effective. "The China Price" is rising. And as the costs of production increase, South Korean, Japanese, American, European, and others will send their FDI elsewhere: to Indonesia (developing fast), India (troubled, but an option for some sectors), Vietnam, etc.; Europeans will relocate back to eastern Europe; and America will relocate back to Mexico, the US, Latin America, Canada. None of this is new. People who can look past the hype and propaganda about China's inevitable rise have noticed these things for over ten years. I thought about writing a book about it when I was in Beijing between 2003-5. An interesting blog about Chinese financial markets: http://blog.mpettis.com

The WHO has stated that something like 3-8% of China's GDP is actually lost due to environmental and health problems, which are seen in hospital visits, corrupt doctors and under the table fees, lower life expectancy, less efficient work (for the sick/ill), etc.

China's export-driven growth model is dependent upon controlling its currency relative to the dollar. The effects of this are overblown by American politicians. But the very means China uses to control its currency is to purchase US Treasury Bonds! (And Japan has nearly as much T-Bonds as China, American citizens have more, and the Fed owns the most.) So, to say that China has America by the balls because it buys T-Bonds and America is therefore subservient ignores what is really happening: China is buys US T-Bonds to prop up its export-model! If China were to sell its US T-Bonds, the immediate effect would be the RMB's value would change relative to other currencies and China's exports would become more expensive and less competitive relative to similar products. China's exporters would suffer. Factories would close. Unemployment would rise. The Chinese Communist Party's entire system since Gaige Kaifang would be threatened by protests and riots. The Chinese put up with the CCP because the economy and military are strong. If the economy collapses, the CCP's leadership and legitimacy would be in jeopardy and the number of protests and riots would escalate (there are already over 100,000 riots/protests in China each year, mainly over land rights, environmental problems, unpaid wages, police brutality or corruption, etc.). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protest_and_dissent_in_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China

And if China sells all its US T-Bonds, what would the effect be on the US? My prediction: America would continue to have normal monthly T-Bond sales and there would be more T-Bonds available to be purchased. Japan, Taiwan, other east Asian and SE Asian countries, and the rest of the world would gobble up as many bonds as they could (because if China suddenly sells, it would lead to fears or actual instability in Asia, and the natural response to avoid instability in financial markets is to hoard US T-Bonds!). American citizens would purchase more bonds. Maybe the government would even encourage it, as they did when fighting world wars or as Bush encouraged people to buy more things as a way to help the economy.

But, yeah, China and America are comparable and it is inevitable that China will overtake the US in your little game of bean counting.

Edited 6/19/2014 01:10:28

"counter-factual" hehe. Fact adjacent.

Another note to add : many Chinese cities have skyscrapers. Unfortunately, most will only stand for 2 decades.

still dont know how china belongs to this topic, but go ahead. Finally it's just pseudo-political science - or political pseudo-science? whatever =)

Lolowut. You said every government has its individual problems. Could that mean that no one should be allowed to teach the others ethic values and human rights (legalized torture and improsinments without trial hardly fit with human rights). Or maybe it is the opposite, which means every nation should be allowed to intervene in foreign politics, when they have the feeling to be in a superior moral position or maybe just for their own benefit (as usual).

In my opinion, social condition can be measured by the number of improsinments per head, which directly correlate with social grievances like racism, lack of education and culturally intolerance. The USA has the most improsinments per head in the world, even more than the UDSSR had during the reign of Stalin. More than 0.7% of all americans are in prison. which is very impressive! If the USA is a self made international policeman, what else could they be then a corrupt policeman, which is only busy for its own benefits?

you said police-state surveillance is only possible due to the recent ubiquitous fancy technology. Thats only half of the truth.The governments also needs the legal basis to use it against their own nation. The fact that they also use it against their allies without permission is a prove for their corruption.

guess thats enough so far - hope it's not offending in any case

The cccp didn't imprison many people because most were executed immediately or sent to Siberia.

=D thanks for this kind of excuse - seems like america isnt as worth as I thought^^ or has that been just a suggestion for a solution?

Sze:

You just supported my point that the economic systems and elements have changed drastically over time, but the principles haven't. Supply and demand and other basic economics have always dictated the path of nations' economies. Monarchy, democracy and socialism have existed off and on in human cultures for millennia.

Fundamentally, all of those economic facets that you listed off are based off of simple supply-demand economics. Economics is sort of like a theoretical version of the real world, in the sense that even the most complicated concepts can be drawn right back to the most basic of principles.

@Ranek:

Social conditions can be determined entirely from prison population?? Are you kidding?

On a separate note, the reason that I originally went on this thread was becuase, as I think we can all agree, the title was a bit upsettingly ignorant.

(Lol the autocorrect didn't recognize "millennia" as a word)

Edited 6/18/2014 22:31:04

of course Im kidding =)and your participation is only good for my personally entertainment ^^
incidentally, the title has been chosen for fishing your attention, so please dont try to find the deeper sense within.

Edited 6/18/2014 23:33:27

Okay, I didn't actually see Lolowut's post so I didn't know the context :P

why do the good topics only get 20 replies and this garbage is 6 pages long? its not like its all spam, some of the posts are a couple of paragraphs. Everyones tone is polite and intelligent and youre all saying nothing useful or interesting at all. It seems to have reached the point where youre not even reading the conversation so far

"Okay, I didn't actually see Lolowut's post" you didnt see it? fuckwit its right there, its massive. Hes written a more detailed post on why he thinks the US is the best country in the world on social issues than hes written for all 10 turns of our 2v2szeuropa games. It is an almost incomprehensible appeal to ignorance, but as youre too busy telling sze what "economics is" to even see it, any time lolowut spent formatting it would have been wasted.

Intellectual masturbation.

Edited 6/19/2014 00:28:12

As you said, it doesn't make any sense why people would pay so much attention to this post, which is why I'm only focusing on my part of the thread. Lolowut did make some interesting points earlier, but I responded to Ranek's comment before I read it. Please don't be such a forum policeman.

You're right, sorry.

Yall need Yeezus