and 'the most accurate way', is as usual, going by jsa's opinion. sigh...

jsa i see your point, but the seeds should be based on last years results, thats the easiest way of doing it, and thats what happened in the clan league, to force relite to be in group C, i think it should be like that in nations cup

thats rather surprising, hawks. how come you went by jsa's method in the promo/relegation league then? ;)

Pulsey, the most accurate way is to have the captains of each team vote on it. Give them a set period, say 3 days to cast the votes, 2 points for a top 8 team, 1 point for a 9-16 team. That is the most accurate way.

Seahawks, there's a difference between 3-4 month's time and a full year. I felt like it was a mistake to do the clan league that way but since Relite said they were fine with being in League C, and I was getting tired of debates anyways by that time, I went with it.

I understand why it would be easier to go with old results but the seeds should be based on the present not the past. The Impaller dominated the game when he still played. If he came back, should he suddenly become known as the best player in the game just because he was at his time? The answer is no, he actually barely cracked the top 10 when he came back from retirement, I think he would do even worse now. You can't judge by what players were like a year ago, it should be what they are like now.

thats very true, jsa.

but how are you going to decide how good they are? I doubt you'v played every player thats participating? how are you going to analyse them? the number of times they'v lost to you? their stats? different types of styles work on different people, just because a player consistently loses to you doesnt mean he cant beat the people you consistently lose to.

And anyway, this is a team tournament. 2 good players does not necessarily make a good team, but 2 bad players does not necessarily make a bad team. How are you going to judge teams?

Point being, players analysis of other players are SUBJECTIVE, its merely an opinion however, the results of the previous competition are FACTS. they actually happened, and it certianly gives a better impression of the truth than an opinion.

Sorry for all the spelling mistakes and bad grammar.

so team captains vote eh? i will start working on my votes if that is what is decided upon

Opinions > Outdated facts

Present > Past

And if a Pool 1 team, say Norway, was Pool 2, they should be able to defeat the Pool 1 team anyway as long as it is not Brazil, since they finished second last time, and that is a fact, right?

We've both made our arguments, now it's up for dunga to decide. If he goes with the results from last season, thats fine, I just think it's better to get all the teams involved by taking votes and that is the most accurate way.

I understand both points, thought i think result of last nation cup are very old and almost all team changed at least half player.
the right question is, have sense seed looking past result, thought team change a lot?
-yes, ok go for seed with past result.
-no, let's captains vote.
I don't know what is better.

JSA: Norway wasn't seeded last tournament either. I don't think our reputation changed from then to now. We ended up with Pool 1 Baltic States in our group (with Heyheuhei) and we beat them 13-0. I don't think it was very fair to Baltic States as a pool 1 team to be in group with us, Poland and Netherlands&Flanders - Baltic States managed advancement after winning all the big games against Netherlands&Flanders, but could just as easily have been knocked out. (It then turned out Heyheuhei didn't play any of the Round of 16 games, so the point became moot then)

Back in previous Nations Cup it was the same argument: "Well if you're so good, you can beat the Pool 1 team you're drawn with, then!" - But that's missing the point. The whole point of seeding is to avoid doing what was done to Baltic States last Nations Cup.

You can't just say "subjective opinion is better and that's a fact", you need to make a basis for the argument. And as has already been pointed out, no captain know all the players and I imagine most captains know less than a third of the players. So voting will be blind, not informed. Thus I get a feeling that what you're trying to point at me as part of my motivation (wanting a better seed for my team) is your whole motivation for your argument.

Personally I'll admit I wouldn't have bothered bringing it up if it didn't affect us, but I would have had the same opinion whatever position Norway was in.

Oh and, one more thing:

JSA: "France has grona, Mian, Niko, Marc"

Case in point: No, they don't. They have grona and Marc, though :) So you're even voting based on players who aren't even in the team. How's that accurate?

Please also notice that they had grona and Niko when we beat them 9-4.

I'm not saying Norway is a better team than France. But I disagree with your implied statement that seeding Norway instead of France is ridiculous.

Germany 1 - Line-Up

Timinator http://warlight.net/Profile?p=816809922
ultimaratio http://warlight.net/Profile?p=426035226
Julkorn http://warlight.net/Profile?p=702562063
pwn|Luigi http://warlight.net/Profile?p=943868492
pwn|Mario http://warlight.net/Profile?p=213282358
mypawisonfire http://warlight.net/Profile?p=272872358 (propably with an alt)

Backup:
Gnullbegg http://warlight.net/Profile?p=255128847

Ok, we are complete :D We can now start to focus on the seeds.

nope, neither france team has submitted their lineups yet

They did in a other thread like every team now

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtkGmYbisfz7dER5ZzJ5ZUlIT25GbUd6OFl1TkRaZFE&usp=sharing

This sheet lists all the players signed up for this years competitions. For those who are interested, the participants are listed in order of the length of their name - there's no special ordering!



Dunga, this sheet has the teams, captains, potential issues, etc - it may be of some use!