Slammy, looks like you owe everyone an apology. Judging an entire country of people on the actions of their government is obviously the only logical choice. I mean myhand should know this more than anyone.

Edited 1/8/2015 13:04:34

Judging an entire country of people on the actions of their government is obviously the only logical choice

i see your point, but US is democratic country, where government is elected by majority of citizens, isn't it?

Edited 1/8/2015 13:06:59

On paper, the US is a constitutionally-limited republic. In reality, it's more of an oligarchy.

The government rarely represents the people, mostly because the majority of the people are apathetic toward politics. They treat it like a sporting event, and are mostly fans of the same team they were born into.

Yes it is, but I can assure you that we do not vote on methods of torture. This has been hidden from Americans because of the outrage that would follow. I agree, there are many idiots in our country, but to judge us all the same is close-minded.

Stereotypes are 70% true 70% of the time.

Look, I'm no America apologist. I just hate it when people over-generalize and lump everyone together into the same boat. I could easily make some sort of "German" reference about lumping groups of people together, but I know better. I happen to have more in common with Germans than with Americans:

http://ncse.com/news/2011/04/polling-creationism-evolution-around-world-006634

The fact that half of Americans support torture is truly fucked. But it's HALF, not all. Myhand prefers to be selectively discriminatory. Rules don't apply to him. He is allowed to over-generalize about Americans, but nobody else is allowed to over-generalize about anyone else. The moment someone makes a comment about Islam, or whatever, they are a xenophobe.

Edited 1/8/2015 15:27:26

Oh yes, and remind us how the al Qaeda tortures Americans as well as innocent people by using them as sex slaves, hanging them by the hands and feet, pulling out nails, constricting genitals, drugging, whipping, and beating them to death?

skourby, two wrongs don't make a right. please stop hurting our reputation.

How am I hurting OUR reputation? They torture us to death for the fun of it (this is not an opinion), and we torture them to get info. Once they give that to us, no more pain.

And what TWO WORNGS? They made a wrong, we are trying to make it right

Edited 1/8/2015 13:59:56

The Islamics torture for the very same reason as the US does: To get info. The Islamics torture as much for fun as the US does (not very much, although a little).

Torture is not the answer, and I'm almost sure it was the US who tortured people first. Have you considered, by your logic, that the Islamics are trying to make it right?

slammy, I think generalisations are ok, since people like skourby stand out more than people like you. So long as they're recognised as generalisations and stereotypes.

Muslims have been torturing people for longer than the US has existed.

Жұқтыру i agree that sometimes generalizations are okay. my point was that myhand should not be allowed to make them. he revoked his generalization rights when he criticized others for doing it.

ah fuck it

Edited 1/8/2015 14:23:04

Ok, well torture has existed longer than perhaps civilisation, I'm talking about in modern times. In the 80s, I believe the central Middle East was pretty peaceful externally, but when the 90s came along, with the Gulf War, where a coalition of several countries all dogpiled on Iraq (I wonder why?), with the US spearheading it, US, although not torturing people, did broadcast on Iraqi television several mutilated bodies after they bombed a civilian bunker and killed around 400 people. Fast forward to Iraqi war, there are much more cases of human rights abuse on US/UK side rather than Iraqi side.

@Жұқтыру, Google the Iran-Iraq War. I'd say the central Middle East was not all that peaceful in the 80s.

But the main point is that torture ought to be roundly condemned by all civilized people, regardless of who is doing it, and regardless of why.

Edited 1/8/2015 15:02:20

*externally*

The only time when torture is acceptable is to fight fire with fire.

The methods used by the U.S barely qualify as torture compared to what's done by organizations like AL-Qaeda. Secondly, when you have a confirmed terrorist who's part of a plot to kill hundreds of innocents, how do you get information? Ask him nicely? But I digress, you guys are right. People who murder dozens of innocents without a second thought are still people and deserve full rights, we should treat them with respect and not try and force them to do anything they don't want to.

P.S: Why the heck is this in the general forum? How is this related to Warlight in the slightest?

It's time to end the disastrous democratic experiment.

*Doffs fedora*

But what about the people who have been detained and tortured simply because of a case of mistaken identity? In the Senate report there was one case of an innocent man being tortured to death. How is that even remotely justifiable?

Also, there is really no consensus that torture is actually useful in getting information. There is actually some evidence that maintaining a respectful attitude towards prisoners and attempting to find common ground is more effective in this regard.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/12/the-humane-interrogation-technique-that-works-much-better-than-torture/383698/