It might not matter much now, but tolerance only allows the problems to get worse over time.

We only looked at FTW! and Good News. We did this after we became positive that something is wrong with them. Right now our investigation is continuing and we're looking into more suspicious clans. If enough initial proof is gathered, we will do this in depth game research for future clans too. One of our goals is to determine which clans are helped by these "innocent until proven guilty" clans and which ones are hurt. If we have enough reason to suspect that X clan is benefiting from this, then mods can do further investigation to find if benefiting clan is connected to the alt clans.

Edited 8/14/2023 23:08:28

*Munches on popcorn*

Anyone believes, Eternity is knyte?

Getting PTSD, Norman?

knyte would have made more graphs. Not just a couple of basic Excel bar charts.
And he wouldn't have written so many lines without making a few passive aggressive jabs at Fizzer and the moderation team.

Eternity does feel like a worthy successor, I don't think I have seen anyone spend so much time on something so useless since knyte's glory days. And I thank him for it, I'm entertained.

By the way, I think mod's question was accidentally left unanswered.

But why is eternity stalling on an actually good community event?

Even when (I am not questioning the fact itself) one clan benefits most of the almost always surrenderers, the conclusion that there is a conspiracy is not funded by any data (so far). And I personally strongly doubt it.

knyte.. before we were mothership II, if you lack the graphics for us..

few active loyal people, maybe need more, that today ate 3 frogs (primes) for breakfast

There's a likely conspiracy between Good News and FTW! They share the same tournaments and almost never choose to play games against each other. Against other similar rankings clans FTW chooses to play a lot of games, but not against Good News. When taking a look at the players of all 3 involved clans (including Really Right) multiple suspicious accounts are discovered with likely same IPs and matching dates of creation. One person using 2+ accounts to inflate rankings of other or their own clans is against Warzone rules and warrants a moderation team response.

Everyone, get some popcorn. We need to watch FTW and GN get utterly D E S T R O Y E D

1. how many alt accounts are in Harmony?

In Cats, we have alts (e.g. muffin) and loads of inactive accounts. Never once have i heard of any cats member ever using alts. (Technically alts are banned in TOS, yet also allowed on ladder in some cases according to rules, so that's not really a significant concern) There are like, 10 active people who play CW in here and it's easy to see that none of them could possibly be alts, so NONO, just because alts are in a clan, doesn't mean alts are cheating. but it's well known that FTW and GN (from evidence shown) are using alts in CW.

my goodness! if you and your clanmates would spend half the time you invested in this sort of "detective research" playing cw games you would probably be #1 by now.

Clan wars are once a day. Real time. Need I say more.

i think its fair 99% of ppl really couldnt care less, but nono reactions are funny. imo just let it be and make fun of it :D

I don't think I have seen anyone spend so much time on something so useless

Okay this seems like way too much effort put into what clearly doesn't matter that much.

Tacky and rak, i think a violation of the rules (that are actually reasonable and don't contradict other rules and is obviously fair) is something big enough.
LND, you too. LND, you can't just throw random accusations at me to kick me out and then turn around and do that sort of stuff.


playing like trash is fine. as long as you enjoy the game. But in enjoying the game ensure that you don't harm anyone or their enjoyment of the game (unless they are too easily harmed for you to have taken any reasonable precautions about not harming them). rigging clan wars is something not acceptable. i don't think this point can be made much clearer than this.


Footnotes that are longer than the actual text itself:

Note since Orcus mentioned in next post: I strongly doubt that MB has any part to play in this rigging other than being an accidental benefitter of it. (Since I am in Cats, there is no reason for me to be biased about who I want to get 1st. im not getting any reward out of this.)

Note on the note:
5s has insufficient reason for his accusation on gc that:

everyone with half a brain knows that CW matches are rigged by FTW/MB/FTW to strip Prime of their top-1 spot. Reason: they hate Idlers!

First of all, the only people who would have any incentive at all (and considering their skill level(s)) (and considering the evidence) are Idlers. Hating their own kind is something not very common. [citation needed /s].
Second, what is the evidence that MB is part of this?

Note unrelated to the other notes: I think that this is not something that would affect most clans in such great amounts, other than MB and Prime. So I doubt most people who have said something about this (other than Tacky and 5s, where 5s made unjustifiable claims, and tacky somewhat dismissing the issue) would have an incentive to bias the argument other than against rigging CW.

Note related to a point I mentioned, but unrelated in any other way, including unrelated to the note unrelated to the other notes: I don't mind that people don't care so much about it. It doesn't affect CW so greatly that it threatens its very existence.... oh wait never mind it does, but not in an immediately destructive way. And if you're getting stressed about it, you have some issues.

Note about the notes, unrelated to the entire discussion except for what Orcus mentioned, including unrelated to the note unrelated to the other notes: I'm not sure if Orcus agrees with the notes since these notes were added after Orcus agreed.

Note about this entire post: Wow this post is more ridiculous in length than my username, and I just added to its length

Edited 8/15/2023 13:20:37

Not much to see here. Low skill players playing a scheme to get some idle rewards. Should they be shut down? Yes, absolutely. Am I going to lose sleep every day that they're not? No, frankly the impact just isn't that much.

If Eternity wants to go ahead and build a case to expose what we're all pretty sure is happening (but don't have conclusive proof of) better them than me. If Eternity wants to go full McCarthy mode and use shaky statistics to implicate MB is something I'm pretty sure they have no part of? Well you'll see a rare defense of Flex and his merc army from me.

No one and I really mean no one is targeting LFA, Kill em all etc. for a downfall in CW. It's just the same low skill players who create alts to aid their free win hunting see a certain clan icon and think they might actually be able to win. We're not dealing with strategic geniuses here.

But fundamentally I agree with Pi here. A blatant flaunting of the rules and spirit of the competition should not be allowed to persist.

FTW! and Good News are already effecting all clans in a negative way. Every single territory they get is a territory that other clans miss out on. Thanks to existence of FTW/GN multiple clans have failed to get enough territories for their desired Idle rewards. If we keep tolerating this, more players/clans will get inspired to replicate this scheme and the negative effect on regular clans will only worsen.

So far our investigation did not find any account connections between MB and FTW/GN, the benefit gained by MB was never significant enough to effect their final standings, therefore it's unlikely that MB is related to FTW/GN. The main focus at the moment is looking at other clans and trying to find if there are any suspicious activity within them. Disciplinary actions will only be taken once enough hard proof is gathered. No clan will be punished based on a mere allegation.

Le Furrie Azzurre and KILL 'EM ALL are direct competitors to FTW/GN and have similar rankings to theirs. In my opinion it's likely that FTW/GN intentionally focused on them in order to surpass them in rankings.

The point of this investigation is to prove that rules were violated, not why it happened. Establishing whether FTW/GN targeted other clans is not as important, because there's already clear evidence of FTW and GN rigging games between themselves. At this point the main objective is identifying all the alts involved in this rigging process and seeing if any other clans might have employed similar tactics.

If any of you have any information about additional clans/accounts involved with gaining unfair Clan Wars advantages, you should report them to mods. If you post about them in this thread, I will see what I can do to look further into your evidence. Looking at all possible connections takes time and community input helps to perform research at a faster pace.

@Eternity if you want to give value to this forum post you should criticize the idea of free wins itself rather than those who have taken advantage of it.

"if I want to break down a tree, I will hit the base not the branches"

If any of you have any information about additional clans/accounts involved with gaining unfair Clan Wars advantages, you should report them to mods. If you post about them in this thread, I will see what I can do to look further into your evidence. Looking at all possible connections takes time and community input helps to perform research at a faster pace.

@knyte: I am willing to investigate the cheating allegations against Optimum. So far I have nothing yet, but I am willing to dig. Yesterday there was an interesting bomb throw but sadly the guy who got eliminated on turn 1 was from my own clan, so I will ignore that :(

-eats popcorn with Ethan- ¤¤¤

@rocky
If Free wins get removed, then fake clans can still get wins from matching against each other and they could still be used to give wins to specific clans.

If you want to criticize Free Wins system, you can do so on another thread. The primary goal of this thread is to deal with FTW/GN issue. If we cannot address their existence right now, then it becomes highly unlikely that Warzone developers will ever make attempts to prevent future abuse from happening.

I do struggle with how Fizzer could fairly identify and deal with abusers of the system. Any suggestions?

Some suggestions:

• Community reports + mod investigations would be a good way to start.
  
• Automatic detection system to handle obvious cases of multiaccounting in Clan Wars.
  
• An automatic system to disqualify player for remainder of the season (and maybe a few more seasons) if he gets booted or surreneders on turn 1 too many times.
  
• No clan points given if a boot happens within picking phase or 1st turn.
  
• If a player gets booted or surrenders on 1st turn, his clan loses 1 win (meaning it will take longer to get next territory for the clan).

Those are some of the suggestions. If Fizzer and his coworkers have the time and will to implement changes, fake clan use in Clan Wars can be reduced.

- An automatic system to disqualify player for remainder of the season (and maybe a few more seasons) if he gets booted or surreneders on turn 1 too many times.
- No clan points given if a boot happens within picking phase or 1st turn.
- If a player gets booted or surrenders on 1st turn, his clan loses 1 win (meaning it will take longer to get next territory for the clan).

Pity to say, but there are also boots in CW when one signs up early in the slot, and then forgets about CW, or is absorbed by work or distracted by a phone call. (And in a clan it can always be the same person)
Not every boot in picking phase or 1st turn is intentional. So don't go too hard with those suggestions.

Some suggestions:
- Community reports + mod investigations would be a good way to start.
...

+1 At this point a clear message from mods/administration on the observed FTW/GN performance (either here, or as a reply to reports) would be really appreciated.

Some suggestions:
- Community reports + mod investigations would be a good way to start.
...

+1 At this point a clear message from mods/administration on the observed FTW/GN performance (either here, or as a reply to reports) would be really appreciated.

+1, I think its worth their time investigating this considering Eternity has already collected data