Another homosexuality thread? What is the deal with all of these? Curses to whoever made the first of these and opened the floodgates.

Fizzer, please lock this.

> The burden of proof lies on you so go ahead then.

I could turn the question around: Can you prove there is no God?

I cannot prove there's no deity. I can, however, prove there's no christian or islamic god, or any other supposedly benevolent, omnipotent and omniscient god. Such a god isn't compatible with reality.

But no, you cannot turn the question around. If you claim there's a god, the burden of proof is on YOU. Just like if I say there's fairies in my garden or a teapot orbiting Mars. To shift attention and say "can you prove there's no teapot out there?" "can you prove there's no fairies?" is just pathetic and shows how afraid some people are to expose their ideas to criticism.

That's sad but it's true.

How do you know it's true? If it's true, do you think it's moral?
If someone, completely innocent, is tied to a track of rails and a train is heading towards the person, you're capable of removing the ties, you know how to do it, you call yourself a good person, yet STILL you don't remove the ties... you're not a good person. I'm sorry. And the same goes for any god who could've saved the millions of innocent people who have suffered throughout history.

you cannot judge God.

I can judge any god just as much as I can judge any other character of fiction. I just did.

our life in this earth is temporary, never forget that the world is a temporary place and a test.

Clearly it's temporary, but you have yet to prove how it's a test created by a god and that any afterlife exists. And how that's morally right by a god who's in no way obliged to design humans many of whom are by nature "evil" according to your claims.

Never forget that you are being tested, even right at this moment, and that the result of this test will determine your afterlife. Also, never forget that this result is very near. Allah reminds us of this fact in several verses and warns His servants against that day:

As I said before... I have yet to see one, just one, tiny shred of evidence for your claims of afterlife and existence of god and all that. So far I've already debunked it logically and all you're doing is responding to it with quotes from a book whose claims you take for granted but for which there's no evidence.

theres no evidence for evolution.

Personally, I think people need to STFU and accept that proving evolution or god isequally impossible

also:
neaderthal man has rickets; hes not an intermediate.

where the hell did the big bang come from, if it started the universe.

many, many, many, intermediate forms have been proved fake.

i could go on, but evolution has no real evidence.

Edited 4/12/2015 15:24:55

theres no evidence for evolution.

There is plenty:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_common_descent
One thing that should be easy to grasp are vestigal organs. A designer who designs a species with vestigal organs is a fool. But evolution explains why such organs are to be expected.
Another is comparing genes molecularly: Genes of species form nested hierarchies, which is what you'd expect if they evolved sharing common ancestors. And this is true even for the vast majority of the DNA which does not even code any information that is used. The fossil record which you comment on isn't the strongest evidence for evolution, but still I hope you're not saying they're all fake.

accept that proving evolution or god isequally impossible

Anything can be proven or disproven as long as you define it in a way that has actual implications for the real world. In the case of evolution, it does - evolution shapes all life on Earth. The banana, our agriculture, dogs, cats and so on are in fact all shaped by artificial selection which is also evolution, and these changes are recorded throughout human history. Diseases evolve rapidly in response to our immune systems. Etc. We can see evolution happening now, in the recent past and there's enormous amounts of evidence that it is what has shaped life since its origin on Earth.

Gods are another issue. Some people define them so vaguely they're per definition not interacting with the world, and of course, when you do that, you make it impossible to prove or disprove in the process, and really pointless too as a concept. Others, like christianity and islam, define gods which they claim do interact with the world and have qualities such as benevolence etc., that means you can disprove them as they're not compatible with the world we live in.

where the hell did the big bang come from, if it started the universe.

Nobody knows. Where did a god come from if it started the universe? A god just moves the question to where did the god come from, instead of the universe. It explains nothing and there's no evidence for it.
Note though that if you're to take e.g. the bible literally, the creation myth there isn't a god creating Big Bang, but a god who creates various things over 6 days, which isn't compatible with what we know from science. Unless you insist on it having another meaning you made up so that it's compatible with science, as many people do, of course.

Edited 4/12/2015 16:18:41

I gotta say, TALIBAN is a much better arguer than me, and he does argue my case well on so many levels, but as far as I can make out he supports the renegades. He thinks that it is okay to kill women, children and old people and blow yourself up to go to heaven. In my opinion arguing for homosexuality is much less tragic than arguing for genocide. Still tragic, just less so.

I believe in God, evolution, and the Big Bang.

If you can accept that God exists without understanding why, it's not difficult to accept that the universe could have started with a Big Bang, without understanding why that happened.

People who create those websites "proving" with "science" that evolution didn't happen (or even worse, that the universe is roughly 6000 years old) are like the people who held onto the idea that everything revolved around the earth, and even came up with equations to prove it. Even though their equations worked for a long time to explain our solar system, they were unnecessarily complicated and required more and more creativity to justify them as we learned more about the universe.

So, yes, there are counter arguments to evolution. They are a stretch and require you to make the picture much more complicated than it actually is.

Evolution might be wrong. However, I think it's highly likely that it's correct.

TALIBAN, I got a piece of advice for you... nobody on the forums is going to agree with you, and eventually you will get in trouble with Fizzer the Creator, so just stop.

I have already stated that I disagree with you on many points, and to be honest if you support Bin Laden, Baghdadi or Zawahiri I believe it is allowed to kill you.



Back to the topic, it is not merely enough to state stuff, as none of these people believe in the word of Allah.

"They are like cattle, nay even more astray; those! They are the heedless ones." 7:179

---

Why Are We Here?
www.bakkah.net

In the Name of Almighty GOD, the All-Merciful, the One who created the heavens and the earth and everything in them, the only One who deserves mankind's worship...

A simple look at the world around us is all it takes to understand what many never take time to reflect upon. The details of this awesome universe we live in explicitly prove the presence of a magnificent and unequalled author.

Some try to deny His existence, relying on their invented theories, assumptions derived from unproven conjecture and guesses. They conjure principles that no rational mind can follow. For example, they say that our universe is a "cosmic coincidence," a result of billions of years of random self-assembly. However, if they would come out of their house in the morning and find a new car in their driveway, they would demand to know who put it there. Imagine if was said to them: "No one put it there, in fact the parts just gathered from unknown places and assembled themselves overnight with no one's help. This is the result of a cosmic coicindence!"

No one in his right mind could accept this answer. Indeed GOD gave us intellects that do not allow us to believe such nonsense.

So if people can not accept the parts of a single car coming together randomly, then how can they believe that the entire universe accomplished such a feat?! From the sky full of stars and other visual wonders, to microscopic organisms we are still discovering, to the design and function of the organs of the human body, can one possibly believe that all of this is the result of a mere coincidence?

Look up and think about how everything you see is organized in such a perfect way! The sun, a ball of fire millions of miles away, provides us with the heat and light we depend on every day. About it, GOD says:

And I (GOD) made a blazing, radiant lantern (78:13)

After the length of the day, mankind indeed needs a rest from the warmth and illumination of the sun. GOD causes the sun to set and gives us darkness to rest, and a perfect nightlight the moon and the splendorous stars. What masterful organization! GOD says:

He (GOD) has put the night and the day in your service, as well as the sun, the moon, and the stars - all in subjection by His Command. Verily in this there are signs for people of intellect. (16:12)

And GOD says:

Don't you see how GOD merges the night into the day and He merges the day into the night, (don't you see) that He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law), each running its course for an appointed term? And surely GOD is well-acquainted with what you do. (31:29)

GOD also says:

Among His Signs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Do not prostrate to the sun or the moon, rather prostrate to GOD, the One who created them, if you really wish to worship Him. (41:37)

Today's scientists comment on the precise balance of the sun and moon, guessing at the innumerous disasters that would occur if the sun or the moon were to stray from their paths the slightest bit. The rational mind can come to only one conclusion, that indeed something is keeping all of this in order. GOD says:

He (GOD) draws the night as a veil over the day, each seeking the other in rapid succession. He (GOD) created the sun, the moon, and the stars, all governed by His Command. Is it not His Right to create and govern? Blessed is GOD, the Cherisher and Sustainer of all that exists! (7:54)

We understand quite clearly that, since this paper you are reading was written, then there was a writer, even though you do not see him. And for every speech there was a speaker, and every delicious dish has a cook behind it. So for every creation, including our very existence, there is indeed a creator.



The Creator is GOD who is without partners

Now that we agree that we are not the product of chance, that we have been created, let us understand some things about our Creator.
The One who created us, GOD, is also the sole Creator of everything else that exists, as He says:

Such is GOD, your Lord, the Creator of all things. There is no god except Him! (40:62)

Because of GOD's ominous power and control over the universe, it is not befitting for man to believe that He needs anyone to help Him. For verily GOD is Alone and does not share His Majesty with anyone. He is the possessor of infinite mercy and compassion for those who obey him, and His punishment is the most severe and lasting for those who turn away from Him. GOD says:

As for those who believed and did righteous deeds, their Lord will admit them to His Mercy, and that will be the Achievement for all to see! (45:30)

And GOD says:

For those who believe and do righteous deeds, He (GOD) will give them their rewards, and more, out of His bounty. But those who are disdainful and arrogant, He will punish them with a grievous penalty, and they will not find anyone to protect or help them besides GOD. (4:173)

As it is not befitting for us to ascribe a rival, partner, or associate to GOD, it is extreme blasphemy to accuse Him of having a father, mother, son, or other descendants or relatives. GOD tells us:

Say: HE is GOD, the One and Only; the eternal, absolute GOD who did not father anyone, nor is He the son of anyone. (112:1-4)

What a tremendous crime it is to claim that GOD, the One free from all imperfections, has a son! Unfortunately, many believe that Jesus is GOD's son! Indeed Jesus holds a high rank, as the Word of GOD and the Conveyor of His Message, but not as His son, for GOD is high and exalted above such a false claim. About this, GOD says:

They say: "The Most Merciful (GOD) has begotten a son!" Indeed you have put forth a most monstrous idea! It is as if the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin for what they say about the Most Merciful (GOD) having a son! For it is not befitting for the Most Merciful (GOD) to take a son. (19:88-92)

So GOD is the sole Creator and Maintainer of all that exists. He has no partner or affiliate, as He says:

Follow what is revealed to you from your Lord there is no god except Him Alone! And turn away from those who join other deities with GOD! (6:106)


May GOD guide us all to what He loves.


This article was taken from BAKKAHnet (www.bakkah.net)

I'm sure if you had any good argument you could've stated it a lot shorter than that. Let's see how the above stands up as evidence for the islamic god though.

Some try to deny His existence, relying on their invented theories, assumptions derived from unproven conjecture and guesses. They conjure principles that no rational mind can follow. For example, they say that our universe is a "cosmic coincidence," a result of billions of years of random self-assembly.

First note is up to this point it has only been rambling and offering no evidence. It begins now to argue against scientific explanations. The "random self-assembly" is a description used by creationists when describing evolution though, and this description is false. Evolution isn't random - it works by mutations, which are indeed random, and natural selection, which is not.
So thus far, all it has offered is vague criticism of the scientific method (the best method we have for telling what's true from false, and why we have the wealth of technology and knowledge we have today), an apparent straw-man argument against evolution and nothing yet for the islamic god.

However, if they would come out of their house in the morning and find a new car in their driveway, they would demand to know who put it there. Imagine if was said to them: "No one put it there, in fact the parts just gathered from unknown places and assembled themselves overnight with no one's help. This is the result of a cosmic coicindence!"

No one in his right mind could accept this answer. Indeed GOD gave us intellects that do not allow us to believe such nonsense.

If I one day come out of my house and finds Allah, then I'll ask, who assembled Allah? So what's your answer? The universe needs a creator, but Allah doesn't? As you can see, a god in no way explains anything, it just raises another question, where itself came from.
Also note another thing: It moves directly from displaying atheism as absurd, to taking the islamic GOD for granted. This is also flawed. Even if the universe were created by a god, that could've also been the Greek or Roman or Norse gods, the christian one, or any other. This attempt to discredit atheism in no way proves Allah exists and cares that people chop off their babies' foreskin which he could've just coded our genes not to grow if he cared so much about it, and all those other claimed qualities of Allah.

Look up and think about how everything you see is organized in such a perfect way!

Again this shows profound ignorance of reality. The world is certainly not perfect. There are millions of people starving to death - right from they're born. Innocent people caught in tsunamis, catching diseases, being caught in wars and other things they have no control over. Everything is not organized in a perfect way if you care about people's well-being.

The sun, a ball of fire millions of miles away, provides us with the heat and light we depend on every day. About it, GOD says:

And I (GOD) made a blazing, radiant lantern (78:13)

1400 years ago everyone could still see the Sun. It's easy for anyone to write a metaphor saying someone created it. Doesn't prove anything.

After the length of the day, mankind indeed needs a rest from the warmth and illumination of the sun. GOD causes the sun to set and gives us darkness to rest, and a perfect nightlight the moon and the splendorous stars. What masterful organization! GOD says:

He (GOD) has put the night and the day in your service, as well as the sun, the moon, and the stars - all in subjection by His Command. Verily in this there are signs for people of intellect. (16:12)

Again this is simply stating someone has created the things everyone could already observe. It's not evidence of anything.

So for every creation, including our very existence, there is indeed a creator.

Again I'd like to ask - do you believe someone created Allah? What created the god that created Allah?

The Creator is GOD who is without partners

How do you suddenly know it is without partners??? Nowhere up until this point was such a thing proven.

Now that we agree that we are not the product of chance, that we have been created, let us understand some things about our Creator.

Again what follows here are a lot of assertions about a god. No evidence was given for any of them. The only argument so far was the argument from design, which I've already shown how absurd is (leads to an infinite number of gods creating each other - something must simply have no creator, whether it's the universe or some god). And the argument for design doesn't prove one tiny bit the god who did all that is the islamic one.

For verily GOD is Alone and does not share His Majesty with anyone.

The text makes an assertion here with no evidence - prove it.

He is the possessor of infinite mercy and compassion for those who obey him, and His punishment is the most severe and lasting for those who turn away from Him.

If he has the power and knowledge to create a holy book that convinces everyone to obey him, making everyone deserving of "infinite compassion", fine, but that's not reality. Reality is his message, 1400 years after it was created, is still followed by much less than half the world's population, mostly because people are born in areas where they just never come into contact with the religion (e.g. mostly-christian USA, Aztecs who knew nothing about islam back then, Hinduist regions in India, and so on). If this god wants to punish these people simply for being born where they are, this god is a sick and twisted god. Don't you agree?

For those who believe and do righteous deeds, He (GOD) will give them their rewards, and more, out of His bounty. But those who are disdainful and arrogant, He will punish them with a grievous penalty, and they will not find anyone to protect or help them besides GOD. (4:173)

Again the rest of all this is really just a bunch of claims that the article never provided any evidence for. I'll just leave the rest out as it's really a waste of space. No evidence for the existence of the islamic god was offered here.

I'm going to be a hero and try and derail this thread
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wWSAI9d3Vxk

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCEQtwIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fm.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D8qMtsir0l9k&rct=j&q=Outkast%2030%20minute%20loop&ei=kBQpVfDPJIGWsAWW_oEo&usg=AFQjCNHcp3282B7dvKwHjQlxeBxEJr0ycQ&sig2=-8NI6Lf_npRMUQx-DaRvaw

Glory to our gracious God. Long live our noble tsar.

God, save us sinners!

Edited 4/12/2015 20:55:58

Now all I want to know is what X originally posted......

Another homosexuality thread? What is the deal with all of these? Curses to whoever made the first of these and opened the floodgates.

Aww poor Eklipse is inconvenienced by a thread denying civil rights on the basis of religion :(

Aww poor Eklipse is inconvenienced by a thread denying civil rights on the basis of religion

Lawlz, I don't even care what your stance is. We do not need a dozen threads talking about homosexuality AT THE SAME TIME. It's nothing but spam at this point.

You see this is why the forums needs mods these threads should all be condensed into one... and then deleted.

For once I actually agree with Pooncrew.

>I have already stated that I disagree with you on many points, and to be honest if you support Bin Laden, Baghdadi or Zawahiri I believe it is allowed to kill you.


I do not support them.

Alhamdulillaah

Might as well. Taliban is close allies with Al-Qaida.