Scoring is based on total points. 20A and 20B were not finished yet, so I showed the actual records of players.

The issue with making team games worth more is a weaker player may be puppeted by superior teammates and have a much higher score than they deserve if team games are worth more.

Jefferspin, I remember you saying this a while back too, right after they started. I apologize again for forgetting to invite you to all :(

I agree a more solid form of promotion/relegation is needed for the future. However, I think part of the essence of 20 is allowing new players to prove themselves in 20A. Darkpie, Latnox, Ollie would have not been 20A this season if it were based solely on promotion and all performed well. I think this is something that will be worked out before the next season begins.

Edited 10/13/2015 22:18:48

I guess JSA doesn't want to say it in your face jeff...

There is nobody out there we hate that much to put in a team with you so better for everyone to not invite you

Krzychu was right

Hard truths

Having team games count for more would make picking the right teammates more important than playing well. It's bad enough for someone like BraaK in the 20B that's just finishing who had his 2v2 partner get booted in every game (except 1 I think?).

Team games will not be worth more than one point in 20. What is possible is that there may be multiple team tournaments, enough for a player to be able to earn equal points in 1v1 and team games. Perhaps next season will consist of 2 3v3 tournaments, a 2v2, and a 1v1. With only 4-5 games in 3v3, there is only around 8-10 total on 3v3. 2v2 will likely be around 8\7-9 games, meaning 15-19 total team games. 1v1 is likely to have around 16-20 players meaning 15-19 1v1 games. This is a possible option that will be talked about for Season 7 I am sure.

Make a rule that states you can't have the same teammates in different tourneys then

i never understood why you can't have the same teammate though

Why should it be possible to get as many points in teamgames as in 1vs1 games?

Am I the only one who believes that teamgames doesn't really need different skills than 1vs1 games? The only difference i see is that you will do better if you got a teammate who's better than yourself. A team is always as good as his strongest member. At least when the others don't care to be puppeted.

Actually i don't really care since i got booted from most games this season anyway, but i just wanted to say that more teamgames slow this league down even more and i don't see the reason for it.

Edited 10/14/2015 09:48:24

actually, teamgames require MORE skill than 1v1. That's why there are more good 1v1 players than teamplayer. Also i would like to mention, that it's easier became good at 1v1 than at teamgames.

tl'dr i care even less than you as i am not playing 20 since long time.

But the reason most of best players don't want play 20 A anymore is:

A) too long tourney
B) too many boots
C) rules were maybe good in the pasts, but i think they need to changed
D) templates voting is very bad. unless i am mistaken, 2 season ago we had Ursa Luna templates. I wasn't playing and i say it was a bad templte. Everyone disagree with me and it get voted. After few games everyone said it was a bad template...
Same this season, 2v2 0% SR ME, and i heard lot of players complain about that setting, that are pretty old, and not much fun.


I also think it's time to change 1v1 template as well. About 3v3 template, i think it has been change few times already but i reccomend to change in the new ladder 3v3 setting, they are slightly better.

One of my proposal for decrease the overall lengh is, boot time 1 days 10 h with like 5 days of banking boot times maybe. Or maybe a little more, like 7 days boot time. But in this way you would ended up with faster games.

Also, IMO, i see the point of mod where he say often is crucial get a better teammate than you, so maybe you should at least play 2v2 with yourself, and only 3v3 been with another player. In this way your skill would have been a bigger impact. 19 1v1 + 19 2v2 + 5 3v3.

About 2 3v3 i disagree, 3v3 are by far the slower games, and i don't see another template good as the actual ladder setting.

I think, it would be fair use for this season the ladder setting for every 1v1 2v2 3v3, but change 2v2 into 4 starts ofc. But maybe is better change completely 1v1 into something more fresh, there are few new Szew templates pretty interesting and very well balanced.

Edited 10/14/2015 10:20:46

i liked the 2v2 0% SR (and winning all games we played) shittons better then 1v1 WR on promotion relegation league (where for example i lost against verzeher for expanding safely while he took risks and got lucky in them)

Edited 10/14/2015 10:37:20

If he had played the 3v3 tournament, he could have received up to 20 total points, meaning Sephiroth is still in first place.

i would reckon beating sephiroth directly on the 3v3 might give me more then that. i don't find the team grouping system very fair. some players play regularly with each other and auto-team together, while the lone wolfs get thrown together. that's why i didn't play in the 3v3. got somehow lucky in the 2v2 with pushover, we actually worked well together.

maybe teams should be drawn randomly for the teamgames, to prevent that behaviour

this would prevent a lot of players joining, as they don't want to play with X players.

lol that would be stupid if you would reject a tourney like 20 because of that not? players who play often teamgames together will have a huge advantage over other teams so i think it is more then fair if team would be randomly drawned

I'd play anyways cause there are no bad teammates. It matters less who you play with

i think you are very wrong Ctrl alt delete, i remember some times ago there was a thread for a teammate season in seasonal ladder, and when we spoked about be random teammates, a good amount of players point out few problems like:
A) you can get a teammate you BL
B) you play with someone you really wouldn't play with
C) luck factor, i am pretty sure everyone would hope to get the as teamamte the best players possibles.
D) you don't want play with someone you think he can get gooted. That's the main point, what if you get a teammate you would neveer teamup with because you know his tendence to get booted?

There are many factor that make random teammates a big factor for don't join a competition.

players who play often teamgames together will have a huge advantage over other

I kinda disagree this is any advantage: in 20 tourney you usually teamup with some you know and teams ended up being kinda balanced. Opposite in the rando mteammates, what if you get your GG partner you usually play with and i get a random player, just promoted from B i never heard and never played a single games with? this would be kinda unfair.
WIth the actual rules, all teammate join other if they at least know a little ;)

I'd play anyways cause there are no bad teammates. It matters less who you play with

Despite i can or not agree in that, it wasn't one of the point i was thinking about.

Edited 10/14/2015 11:44:35

A) you can get a teammate you BL
B) you play with someone you really wouldn't play with

i think this is part of the team game effort. if you can't communicate with your teammates disregarding your differences you will be at a disadvantage.

C) luck factor, i am pretty sure everyone would hope to get the as teamamte the best players possibles.

luck is same for everyone.

D) you don't want play with someone you think he can get gooted. That's the main point, what if you get a teammate you would neveer teamup with because you know his tendence to get booted?

there are no high boots on 20, unless someone is retiring, and in that case he should not accept new season to begin with.

the real issue here (for people not wanting random team mates) is that they believe they have better outcome with trusted teammates. well, no shit sherlock. but it's not really fair for the other participants in this case.

Edited 10/14/2015 11:55:41

I don't know how it was in 20A or 20C, but boots were definitely an issue in 20B team games. At least 3 people (Miyagi, HHH, and Qi's alt) were booted in about 90% of their games. I had a teammate get booted twice. In the 3v3 tournament my team actually only had two games that were not decided by boot.

boot are a big issue. A lot of people get booted. I can't understand how PS can't get it.