I do not get what people mean by "believe". I either know or i wish. No one seems to be able to explain that thing. :(

Really? Cause that really doesn`t seem right to me. Around 12 billion years to develop an organism more advanced than humans is more than enough. Even on our planet there could`ve been an advanced lifeform (but instead we got things like dinosaurs, which are also awesome). To say that we are the most advance lifeform in the entire universe seems like antropocentrism on the highest possible level.

Exactly my point; If there is all this time for life to exist, why doesn't it? In just nine thousand years humans have gone from not knowing how to grow our own food to launching satellites past our own solar system. If this advanced life has existed for literally billions of years, given the sort of technological advances that humans are able to make, much less a more intelligent life form, where is it? Where are these more intelligent beings?

I do not get what people mean by "believe". I either know or i wish. No one seems to be able to explain that thing. :(

A belief is just a thought that you have a propositional attitude of truth towards. To truly have knowledge you have to have a justified true belief in which your justification also has to not have been based on false information. If you don't have this, then you do not have "knowledge".

Edited 5/14/2016 14:19:30

@ Imperator Something that advanced should have no problem to hide its existence from primives like the earthlings.
So you say that belief and knowledge mean the same? Ok...

Edited 5/14/2016 14:22:05

Yes yes I know, the aliens are all hiding from us on purpose, it's not as if they just don't exist.

So you say that belief and knowledge mean the same? Ok...

No, I specifically made a differentiation between the two.

Edited 5/14/2016 14:22:46

My theory is that the aliens probably sent a few expeditions here, maybe took some samples, then faffed off. The US government probably has some alien tech too.

Well, i have to consult my dictionary it seems, in my understanding of words "propositional attitude" does not make any sense. Google is not helpful either...

Edited 5/14/2016 14:26:21

Well, i have to consult my dictionary it seems, in my understanding of words "propositional attitude" does not make any sense. Google is not helpful either...

Here's a wikipedia article about it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propositional_attitude

Edited 5/14/2016 14:27:16

If there is all this time for life to exist, why doesn't it? In just nine thousand years humans have gone from not knowing how to grow our own food to launching satellites past our own solar system. If this advanced life has existed for literally billions of years, given the sort of technological advances that humans are able to make, much less a more intelligent life form, where is it? Where are these more intelligent beings?

Depends on where this civilation is and how long it excists. It could be more advanced, but still only excist for a little bit longer than humans. We are far from reaching other stars. If this advanced lifeform lives a couple of 1000 stars away it will takes some times to get here. But it could already have takes over 800 of those stars and their planetary systems without us noticing. If an advanced lifeform has formed outside of our local group, they won`t ever be able to reach us, no matter how advanced they are.

It is not logical to say humans are the most developed species in the universe. We A. have not seen everthing in the universe and we will never be able to even reach outside of our local group to do research in the rest of the universe. B. We can`t even leave our solar system, there might be civilations that can, but that doesn`t mean they should reach us. If they are far away it might take a while to even get here. How many systems does a species need (or can a species handle), maybe some stopped after colonizing a couple of these systems. They would still be more advanced than us.

Depends on where this civilation is and how long it excists. It could be more advanced, but still only excist for a little bit longer than humans. We are far from reaching other stars. If this advanced lifeform lives a couple of 1000 stars away it will takes some times to get here. But it could already have takes over 800 of those stars and their planetary systems without us noticing. If an advanced lifeform has formed outside of our local group, they won`t ever be able to reach us, no matter how advanced they are.

It is not logical to say humans are the most developed species in the universe. We A. have not seen everthing in the universe and we will never be able to even reach outside of our local group to do research in the rest of the universe. B. We can`t even leave our solar system, there might be civilations that can, but that doesn`t mean they should reach us. If they are far away it might take a while to even get here. How many systems does a species need (or can a species handle), maybe some stopped after colonizing a couple of these systems. They would still be more advanced than us.

I never really accepted theories such as this as valid for explaining the existence of aliens, as they are practically psuedo-science. When using the scientific method, you are supposed to try your best to invalidate your theory, to prove it wrong. Answers like this only offer proof that your theory is right, and ignore the fact that based on our best information there are no aliens more intelligent than us.

And even so, all they really prove is that there is a possibility that aliens do exist, Which is not something I've denied; All I've said is that I firmly believe that they don't. However, if you've checked out my earlier post, you'll realize that belief and knowledge are very different.

I never really accepted theories such as this as valid for explaining the existence of aliens, as they are practically psuedo-science. When using the scientific method, you are supposed to try your best to invalidate your theory, to prove it wrong. Answers like this only offer proof that your theory is right

Exact same goes for you. Your believe is just as much psuedo-science. As you can`t prove that there isn`t a civilization more advanced than us in the universe.

ignore the fact that based on our best information there are no aliens more intelligent than us.

Our best information doesn`t reach far compared to how big our universe is. Even if we know everything about our local group (which we don`t by far), we would still only know about 0.00000000001% of the universe. Which is cool and all, but in most science fields, if you have only studied 0.00000000001% of all possibilities it isn`t really usefull information. Our best information is very limited. It is not sufficient enough to scientifically tell us that we are the most advanced civilization.

Exact same goes for you. Your believe is just as much psuedo-science. As you can`t prove that there isn`t a civilization more advanced than us in the universe.

No, it isn't. I've looked all over for the aliens that will invalidate my belief, and I haven't found any.

Our best information doesn`t reach far compared to how big our universe is. Even if we know everything about our local group (which we don`t by far), we would still only know about 0.00000000001% of the universe. Which is cool and all, but in most science fields, if you have only studied 0.00000000001% of all possibilities it isn`t really usefull information. Our best information is very limited. It is not sufficient enough to scientifically tell us that we are the most advanced civilization.

Yes, there is a lot of universe to study, but based on our best information there are no aliens. The fact that there is a possibility that our current information is wrong is a very poor basis for an opinion.

Again, I'm not denying that there is a possibility that there are aliens. However, there is also a possibility that there aren't. And based on the fact that the only proof in favor of them existing is that "they could be intentionally hiding from us", the latter is much more likely.

Edited 5/14/2016 15:08:52

And based on the fact that the only proof in favor of them existing is that "they could be intentionally hiding from us",

So lets ignore this part of my post then? "Depends on where this civilation is and how long it excists. It could be more advanced, but still only excist for a little bit longer than humans. We are far from reaching other stars. If this advanced lifeform lives a couple of 1000 stars away it will takes some times to get here. But it could already have takes over 800 of those stars and their planetary systems without us noticing. If an advanced lifeform has formed outside of our local group, they won`t ever be able to reach us, no matter how advanced they are."

So you say our information is pointing into the direction of there being no other alien life? The problem with almost all information we have of the universe is that it isn`t certain. We have no information on whether or not advanced lifeforms live somewhere else in the universe. We only know there aren`t other advanced lifeforms in this solar system. I don`t know what information you have that says there aren`t more advanced lifeforms in the rest of the universe.

We can also look at the "information" we already have:
-There are lifeforms travelling across the universe using comets.
-Under the right conditions these lifeforms can survive on a planet.
-There are more than an (estimated) nonillian planets in the universe.
-If a lifeform lives long enough under the right conditions, it can develop into a more complex lifeform.

This information tells me that there is a big chance of there being another planet with an advanced lifeform in the universe.

Edited 5/14/2016 15:25:25

So lets ignore this part of my post then? "Depends on where this civilation is and how long it excists. It could be more advanced, but still only excist for a little bit longer than humans. We are far from reaching other stars. If this advanced lifeform lives a couple of 1000 stars away it will takes some times to get here. But it could already have takes over 800 of those stars and their planetary systems without us noticing. If an advanced lifeform has formed outside of our local group, they won`t ever be able to reach us, no matter how advanced they are."

The problem with this is that it's based on the assumption that advanced civilizations are unable to produce more and more advanced technology. Sure, based on our current understanding it's impossible to travel outside our local group and conquer star systems quickly, but there is no reason to believe that this problem can't be overcome with more advanced technology, technology that we can't even comprehend today. After all, people historically believed that it would be impossible to even fly across the atlantic, which turned out to be very wrong; We just needed better technology.

We can also look at the "information" we already have:
-There are lifeforms travelling across the universe using comets.
-Under the right conditions these lifeforms can survive on a planet.
-There are more than an (estimated) nonillian planets in the universe.
-If a lifeform lives long enough under the right conditions, it can develop into a more complex lifeform.

This information tells me that there is a big chance of there being another planet with an advanced lifeform in the universe.

Unless I'm mistaken, panspermia is regarded as an unconfirmed theory as of now, another one of these pseudo-scienctific justifications for how aliens are inevitable.

Edited 5/14/2016 15:34:36

The problem with this is that it's based on the assumption that advanced civilizations are unable to produce more and more advanced technology. Sure, based on our current understanding it's impossible to travel outside our local group and conquer star systems quickly, but there is no reason to believe that this problem can't be overcome with more advanced technology, technology that we can't even comprehend today. After all, people historically believed that it would be impossible to even fly across the atlantic, which turned out to be very wrong; We just needed better technology.

So based on our information right now it is impossible to travel outside our local group. That doesn`t mean a more advanced lifeform can`t. According to you our information tells us there are no advanced lifeforms in the universe and this information (which is a lot less certain) is right for sure?

panspermia is regarded as an unconfirmed theory as of now

We know so little of the universe that almost everything is an unconfirmed theory.

another one of these pseudo-scienctific justifications for how aliens are inevitable.

Yet to see an non pseudo-scientific justification for how there isn`t any lifeform more advanced than humankind.

Edited 5/14/2016 15:41:14

Well if it's unconfirmed, it's unconfirmed, don't try to use it as an argument for the existence of aliens.

Yet to see an non pseudo-scientific justification for how there isn`t any lifeform more advanced than humankind.

I've looked literally everywhere for aliens, I really have. I haven't found any evidence to counter my belief other than "There is a possibility that our current information is wrong", which as I've said is a very poor piece of evidence at best.

So based on our information right now it is impossible to travel outside our local group. That doesn`t mean a more advanced lifeform can`t. According to you our information tells us there are no advanced lifeforms in the universe and this information (which is a lot less certain) is right for sure?

I actually have reason to believe that technology will advance and make "impossible" things happen, which is that this is what has always happened historically.

Edited 5/14/2016 15:45:20

There is a possibility that our current information is wrong

I already told you that our information isn`t perse wrong, but it is insufficient to tell anything about the entire universe. We do not have any information about the entire universe. Our current information is that there are no other advanced lifeforms in our solar system, which isn`t wrong. We have no other information about lifeforms in the universe.

I actually have reason to believe that technology will advance and make "impossible" things happen, which is that this is always what has happened historically.

I actually have reason to believe that there are more advanced lifeforms in the universe. Also "it happened before in history" is a very poor piece of evidence at best.

I actually have reason to believe that there are more advanced lifeforms in the universe. Also "it happened before in history" is a very poor piece of evidence at best.

No it isn't. If technology has always gotten better at a consistent rate for a while, the only logical assumption is that it's going to keep getting better; Nobody is going back to horse drawn carriages at this point, and to be honest nobody really wants to.

If you do have reasons to believe this, you haven't shared them with me. What are they?

I already told you that our information isn`t perse wrong, but it is insufficient to tell anything about the entire universe. We do not have any information about the entire universe. Our current information is that there are no other advanced lifeforms in our solar system, which isn`t wrong. We have no other information about lifeforms in the universe.

In that case it's an even worse basis for a belief; We don't have any information whatsoever on this, so I'm going to assume that whatever I want is true.

Edited 5/14/2016 15:54:49

If you do have reason to believe this, you haven't shared them with me

There being over a nonillian planets in the universe and about 12 billion years for lifeforms to develop. Our species has only been around for less than 0,5 Ma. The chances of there being another planet that holds live and this liveform being more developed than humankind is quite big.

If technology has always gotten better at a consistent rate for a while, the only logical assumption is that it's going to keep getting better

It is the logical assumpion, but that isn`t a scientific argument (at least it isn`t if you do not think there isn`t any other advanced lifeform).

It`s going to keep getting better? Probably. Does that mean there are no limits to technology? No. There probably are limits, and we and any other lifeform can`t surpass that limit.

There being over a nonillian planets in the universe and about 12 billion years for lifeforms to develop. Our species has only been around for less than 0,5 Ma. The chances of there being another planet that holds live and this liveform being more developed than humankind is quite big.

That's not a reason, it's psuedo-science. As I've already pointed out, pseudo-science proves, while science disproves.

Does that mean there are no limits to technology? No.

I disagree. Until we actually reach this limit or find some way to hypothesize it, there's absolutely no reason to believe that it exists.

Edited 5/14/2016 16:09:59