NIGHT trolled the community he supposedly loved so much and spread hate and lies about women, minorities, and gays. These are indisputable facts, not an argument.
Just stop protecting a famous troll. He is indefensible. There is no excuse what so ever to spread misogyny, racism, and bigotry. You are defending somebody who literally pumped hate and lies about women, minorities, and gays directly into the community that he "cares for so much". You have no standing.
Well, I guess you aren't a believer in second chances then. Going by the same logic, AI already screwed up, and as such should be banned indefinitely. That's the real issue at stake, does AI deserve a second chance, should he be in CL8? While I'm all for second chances, I also think there needs to be a probational period in regards to cheating.
Take a long hard look in the mirror, because what I see is someone who has become the very thing the claims to hate. Making a thread like this in my opinion is more harmful, and more damaging to the community than the combination of every one of the list of accusations you made against Mhunters.
I'm arguing against what appears to me to be M'Hunters supporting cheating, which is more toxic to the community in my eyes than anything else, even extreme trolls.

I agree Holdway, but I also believe Knight had very good intentions and brings many good points. I believe Knight simply wants MH to make punishments (and implement the punishments) to the players in there clan who hurt the community or cheat.

Also to Rogue Nikolai Krogius, I know that the first response to accusations to your clan or clan members will always be one of absolute defense, but Knight (as stated previously) has made very good points towards your clans lack of punishment and control of certain members. I believe that trying to discredit the facts that Knight has brought together simply on the basis of his past moral character shows the sign of deflection and immaturity on your part (which I assume that you do not intend).

So how about this, Knight you apologize for condemning the entirety of MH.
And Rogue Nikolai Krogius you implement a penalty system for MH and help enforce it.

Respectfully submitted,

[RE] Lord Kira

Count me with the folks that previously respected M'Hunters clan, but have since lost that respect.

The thing about this that feels the most ironic is how they keep throwing Lawlz's name as an insult. Now before I get completely dogpiled, I will readily admit that he is the very definition of a forum troll. He was also a pretty good friend of mine. I'm losing my point though.

DESPITE my friendship with Lawlz, when he would go off the rails on the forums, we kicked him from the clan, and set up conditions for his return. Just because you deal with a person in your clan causing trouble doesn't mean it has to be forever. In kicking Lawlz, we put consequences on his actions. He didn't like those consequences, so he started behaving better on the forums. As clan leaders, we (myself and Kasp), successfully modified his behavior and made him a better part of the greater clan community.

That is what Knyte is asking you guys to do, M'Hunters. Deal with the problem in your clan. Not only are you choosing not to deal with the problem, you're throwing Lawlz name around as an insult despite the fact that he was a success story of clan level discipline, something that you feel completely unwilling to do.

Very well put Dr.

I ask you not to lose your respect for MH quite yet though and to wait and see how they as a clan respond to the inappropriate behavior of some of the members in there clan.

I also wanted to thank and commend you for what you did with Lawlz, changing possibly the worst Troll on Warlight to a very respectable player (Knight) is no easy task but you braved it and helped the community as a whole. I hope every clan, not just MH or any other, views your success as the way to help stop what has become of our forums.

There is nothing that I can do, or you, or Fizzer, or anyone else can do that will stop all the cheaters and the trolls, but banding together and following your clans example of leadership may just help return Warlight to the beautiful place it once was.

Respectfully submitted,

[RE] Lord Kira

So wow... I am gaining more and more respect for knyte (never thought I would say that) and less and less for M'Hunters. Nobody in their clan will answer the charges and RNK is doing nothing but personally attacking. Clearly he has no defense here. I would love to hear a reasoned response to knytes accusations that avoids dropping down to personal attacks.

Perception is reality. RNK focus on what the accusations are and stop berating knyte. Otherwise you are the clear loser in my eyes at least (and likely the community). You may have already done too much damage to recover to be honest.

I have no real power inside of MH. I only have the power to call out hypocrites when I see them.

I do appreciate those who comment here ( Howard/Lord Kira/Others) who appear to genuinely have no bias or are viewing as an outside source. I agree that I got to carried away with my attacks on his moral character but every word was true.

As per the punishment of AI: AI was banned from M'Hunters Skype chat (to my knowledge) until he modified his behavior. Some believe that AI was not punished harshly enough while others believe that AI did nothing wrong to begin with.

The bottom line is that some form of punishment was given and the activity (whether it was cheating or not) has ceased. There is no issue except for those who wish to use this incident for drama.

@DarrenDieHard I did not say anything untruthful. Everything I said is 100% correct and you can argue the merits of my arguing style as much as you want but I am not a hypocrite.

Edited 7/21/2016 05:53:37

Yes you are

Prove it.

http://imgur.com/a/OqA6H

@Lord Kira: Since you aren't trolling with the other trolls in this thread, I'm willing to answer you despite I'm only repeating what I wrote in the thread made by Hell (whom we IP checked to be forbidden knowledge): We decided to neither throw AI out of the clan nor to punish him in any way like excluding him from our clan league lineup. That's all, have a nice day!

If we have warned him what we might or might not have then this would have been a private thing and not something we would share with you nor any of the internet mob.

I stand by every word I typed. I have no problem with name calling but name calling on the forums makes you a disgrace to society. Luck for you, you apologized for name calling and I congratulated you on that.

This is old news. Unless, of course, you wanna go through the motions all over again.

Edited 7/21/2016 06:12:01

I am not pleased with any of the main actors in this thread.

I'm also not pleased with the M'Hunters leadership.

I'm also unlikely to be invited to a game involving
M'Hunters players in the next 6 months.

Further,
Knyte is a poor choice to be the opening poster and main advocate for this thread topic.

As for the topic of cheating:
Cheating affects everyone. That's why clans that find cheaters in their ranks need to deal with it publicly, because as japan77 said:
>>
Also, I believe clan members agree to be associated with how the leadership acts when they join a clan... <<

It seems apparent that a member of the M'Hunters clan cheated, did so in a way that was both worthy of report and worthy of banning,

and that the M'Hunters clan did little or nothing about it...

that is an egregious sequence of offenses in my eyes.

Thanks for the guides, but you have lost my respect until your clan fixes this.

Further, just for the record, Rogue, you have been an impediment to resolving the sort of issues that *you* claim to care so much about, you talk like a royal ass, and I want nothing to do with you.

I won't bother reading the other two pages..

Knyte, stop now, the MH problem will never be sorted and it'll just least to misery on the point of you KNOW you're correct and they're being assholes but Fizzer won't do anything (ever) and most of the community don't care enough.

It's just not worth the time.

@Dublin Warrior: In clan league 7 there was a player who dragged out the league by taking multiple vacations despite being active. He then lost his games probably on purpose and thus pretty much single handedly caused the relegation of his clan. He got excluded from his clan. In clan league 8 however, another clan with whom he had 0 relations with before, let him play for them, despite him having ruined some of the clan league experience of quite some other clans.

Now do I judge that player or clan? Nope! Why am I telling the story then? Because I'd like you to pi... have a nice day, you hypocrite.

I have written a big text in order to answer knyte here, but... I deleted it, because its hillarious to take knyte seriously :D So here is my official answer for this thread:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I'm with knyte here.
Norman, your strategy guide is epic, but your clan member Nikolai has gone to far in this thread. He should be punished for this. Not just banned from the clan skype, suspended from the clan or something of the sort.

Its true that M Hunters have some problematic players and some questionable decisions in the past, but we can't consider that they're all like this. Players like Smoove and TBest are really cool and nice to talk to, other than being good players. I think that M'Hunters can still change for the best, and I really hope they do. If they don't, M'H is doomed to lose their last cool players and become a heaven for bad players, which is bad for everyone. Their behaviour in the past made good players like Farah leave the clan, but still punishing the hole clan for bad behaviour isnt a productive action to take, giving them a warning and a chance to change would be a better course of action in my opinion.

It's simply not possible to alter the arrogancy level of some MH guys and Knyte himself is trying to pursue it to an extent that it's harming the general integrity of the forums even more than they were doing with their general arrogant comments, and by doing so he's adding tinder to the fire. I hope knye understands and doesn't continue in the same direction with these posts which are only serving as pissing off contests.

Edited 7/21/2016 14:33:16

http://bit.ly/mh-cheating

---

@TeamGuns:

Going by Rogue Nikolai Krogius' profile tagline:

Silence against evil is evil itself.

You either create good norms, or you do nothing and condone bad behavior. We hold clans responsible in this community for not giving their stamp of approval to misbehavior and especially not backing leaders that behave in such a toxic manner, crossing the line from arrogance to straight-up harassment.

However, since we're on the topic of creating norms, I think it's worthwhile to present some concrete evidence that condoning cheating does encourage further cheating:

http://bit.ly/mh-cheating

Again, I also object to getting treated as the "just as bad" guy here. Read the thread I linked in my first post. Read the comments Nikolai, Norman, and AyanM (2 of the 3 are their clan's leaders) make. If you think I'm just as bad as people who're slandering and harassing me as their response to criticism, you're just as guilty here.

Edited 7/23/2016 10:06:41