So you would either live in a world where you couldn't have a second child or one where you can't be openly gay and speak out against Putin. Or you will get driven over by a tank in protest. Take your pick.

Edited 6/3/2017 02:08:38

LOL nuclear disarmament. Nukes preserve peace. Nukes are why we aren't fighting WWV now.

you realise that more than one documented time a world war would've began between Russia and America and it was only the DIRECT DISOBEYING of protocol that stopped it? Folk had the same idea about Mutually Assured Destruction since a long time ago. in the First World war, it was the invention of the mobile machine gun (Maxim gun). Later it was gas warfare, but that didn't stop 2nd World War (they just agreed not to use gas warfare).

Likely the idea (and it's proofs of failures) goes way back even before the 1900s.

If 300 million people are suddenly left without hope, someone will come along and give them somebody else to blame. It doesn't matter if the rest of the world stays out, terrorism will come whenever there's such a vacuum.

do you know what the population of India, Bangladesh, and Pakistan is? also not to say that dread is a greatly exxagerated problem.

Punishing people for actions they had nothing to do with, or actions that their ancestors did, is backwards and barbaric. It's sociopathic to advocate such a position.

I agree, but then are you against all wars and lots of sanctions since it's harming innocent folk involved?

Edited 6/3/2017 02:20:53

I'm against wars on principle. However, it's sometimes necessary.

You should also note there's a difference between waging war on an armed entity with civilians being caught in the crossfire, and direct targeting of civilians.

Innocents had to die for Hitler to be removed from power, but German civilians weren't the targets of the war. Once Hitler was gone, the civilians were left be.

People like eisenheim don't stop at punishing the government, they want to make the general citizenry suffer as well.

Honestly, the world, would likely be a lot safer without the US government's democratic crusades. The US would probably just go on like normal, and likely even get better in terms of economics. Most police would just go private or settle with county governments depending on how much of the government is taken away. China would mostly invest in Africa and trade, Russia would breath and recover finally, Europe would be too split and indecisive to go conquering, and Saudi Arabia would get fuqqed by Iran. Oh and Assad wins. Yeah feels good man.

Oh I forget about the Petrodollar yeah that'll be bad for the US but it was going to happen anyway

Edited 6/3/2017 02:31:04

try to at-least admit it's better to keep nuclear weapons in the hand of an actual country with something to lose than to let them get taken by desperado terrorists with nothing to lose

Hahaha. Because the nation states of this world don't engage in state sponsored terrorism with their bombing campaigns eh ? The only difference between a terrorist and an army officer is one has no 'legal' status the other does. That is no way justifies targeting innocents such as children or people who go about their everyday life. But an army uniform does not grant carte blanche either.

Poverty always breeds terrorism

No. Systematic injustice and failure to resolve grievances through non-violent political means? A good example is the IRA and the Ulster Volunteer Force. Less to do with poverty everything to do with national identity along with political motivations.

That's the only way to justify such violations to the general population.

That's why I, on principle, call out any nation who makes this false claim.

You realize the average citizen has nothing to do with the actions committed by their government?

Fascinating. The last time I checked Western Europe and the USA were the bastions of Democracy. Representative government. Which literally derives power from THE people FOR the people and commits all actions IN their name. If the populace of said countries elect selfish ignorant leaders who flaunt the rights of everybody else and works for their national interest with no regard for the human cost then those of us not involved in the very least have a right to call them out on it.

Punishing people for actions they had nothing to do with, or actions that their ancestors did, is backwards and barbaric

I agree that such a scenario where hundreds of millions suffer is not humanely desirable. That being said a life is a life. Just like 1+1=2. American loss of life is no more important than the blood shed by its victims and in that respect, what should concern us is life, not their nationality or race. The whole point of attacking America is their callous disregard for life, liberty and rights of citizens that aren't theirs.

I know you blindly hate the United States

I don't blindly hate the US. I ridicule their hypocrisy and the notion theirs is the right way. Particularly when it comes to foreign policy. In that vein, I won't stop at anything to call it out where possible.

The US has one of the largest stockpiles of natural resources in the world and Russia and China would fight a war over who would control it. Wars have been fought over far more stupid reasons.

The US would likely be a bite too big for any imperialist. It's more likely the EU and UN set up a government in DC or NY, and get kicked out after a few years by the folk, like Somalia, rather than some apocalyptic war over the US.

For the record, people wanted the US to be a third world country, not collapse as a whole. Which means they still are there, the WMDs are under goverment control. They just stop their ridiculous foreign policy and get off the Internet.

Poverty always breeds terrorism. If 300 million people are suddenly left without hope, someone will come along and give them somebody else to blame. It doesn't matter if the rest of the world stays out, terrorism will come whenever there's such a vacuum.

If that was the case half of the world would be terrorists. Yet countries which are wealthier have more and more dangerous terrorists.
For terrorism it takes a motive to die for, a motivation, not just poverty.

Geopolitical Problems:
-Europe now stands alone against whatever Vladimir Putin has in store. I know many Europeans like to see themselves as strong,independent countries who don't need the U.S. However, a lonely Europe is an endangered one. While most European countries are great places with good quality of life, great education/healthcare, and other boons; their military strength isn't something that's feared. The majority of European nations are too weak or too pacifist to put up a solid front against Russia. If Putin decides to expand western, the only thing you'll have to deter him would be French nukes.

Ohh please, what did the US do to stop Putin's aggression in Europe? What did the US do against Krim and Ukraine? Nothing, but talking. What do they against Russian airstrikes in the middle east? Nothing but talking. If Russia invaded the Baltics today (members of NATO) the US would just talk to Russia, but not send a single airplane or soldiers, because "Muh America first!".

-The aforementioned 300 million citizens are now a prime recruitment pool for terrorist organizations, drug cartels, and other criminal outfits. Terrorism and Crime will spike globally.

Are you saying your people are recruitment pool for terrorists? Ohh, maybe we should dronetrike the US instead of Syria, Iraq, etc. After all you have more weapons and more potential terrorists! You even terror yourself and blow up your own Trade Center. Patenthic.

So, to all the people who think the world will be better if the United States become a third world country. Does any of this look good for you? Do you like the idea of Russian/Chinese supremacy? Do you like the idea of 300+ million Americans suffering? Or how about all the people who will suffer in the ensuing power vacuum? Will you still be giddy when ISIS gets their hands on American nukes and decides to truly purge the infidels?

Russian supremacy is unlikely. Besides WMDs the Russian military is weak. Even weaker than Turkey. This is not COD where they singlehand entire countries. Be realistic.
China supremancy is more likely but okay. They are already dominating economically. They don't have the capability or technology to build an empire. Infact they are instead aiding countries' economy and creating jobs. Example Indochina.
I am actually more worried about US-Supremacy, because they have the technology and ressources to seriously be a threat to the world.

Innocents had to die for Hitler to be removed from power, but German civilians weren't the targets of the war. Once Hitler was gone, the civilians were left be.

Wrong once again.

I implore anyone who takes any interest in this to read the on the RAF Bomber Command's record during WWII. I also suggest you look at firebombing Tokyo. Hamburg, Dresden, Berlin I can go on. 500,000 civilians died for nought. Post-war Allied research showed area bombing (Which as the name suggests BOMBS THE AREA) had minimal if zero impact on the war. What defeated Hitler was Russia and the collapse of his armies. NOTHING TO DO WITH CIVILIAN bombing. As for they stopped. That's why Dresden was destroyed eh?

You should also note there's a difference between waging war on an armed entity with civilians being caught in the crossfire, and direct targeting of civilians.

Yes modern warfare likes to deliberately target them and then label them as 'collateral damage'. It falls under this concept called 'proportionality'. All nice in theory, horrendously abused in real life.

People like eisenheim don't stop at punishing the government, they want to make the general citizenry suffer as well.

People like Eisenheim will attack indefensible interventionist attitudes and the record of guilty nations.

I don't have relatives in the US. neither has my surname. I honestly couldn't care less of America existing or not

people wanted the US to be a third world country, not collapse as a whole.

there're thirdworld countries like India that are still quite strong and arguably superpowers. Also Cata why d'you care, you don't even think USA is a superpower today.

This is not COD where they singlehand entire countries. Be realistic.

lol, indeed

They don't have the capability or technology to build an empire.

how's that?

Ohh please, what did the US do to stop Putin's aggression in Europe? What did the US do against Krim and Ukraine? Nothing, but talking. What do they against Russian airstrikes in the middle east? Nothing but talking. If Russia invaded the Baltics today (members of NATO) the US would just talk to Russia, but not send a single airplane or soldiers, because "Muh America first!".

I mean if you ignore all the aggression the US has been doing yeah they did nothing, but in general you just hate America so you can't let facts get in the way of that.

guilty nations

REEEEEEEEEE COLLECTIVISTS OUT OF MY THREAD REEEEEEEEEE

Fascinating. The last time I checked Western Europe and the USA were the bastions of Democracy. Representative government. Which literally derives power from THE people FOR the people and commits all actions IN their name. If the populace of said countries elect selfish ignorant leaders who flaunt the rights of everybody else and works for their national interest with no regard for the human cost then those of us not involved in the very least have a right to call them out on it.

Democracy is a cancer for this reason, it gets folk into the mindset that they are the nation and the government, it allows for the mindset that other peoples are responsible for their government's actions and as such can all be evil and killable, amongst it's other flaws.

I didn't say they could be killed. I said that at the least, we can ask, attack and question them.
Accountability is what is lacking these days.

I am willing to bet if we asked the people that voted for the scrotum bro's (G. Bush and Dick. C) they would say no we aren't responsible for Fallujah nor the atrocities in Iraq. True they aren't guilty of those actions. What they are guilty of is electing leaders who ordered said atrocities. As long as the masses refuse to hold their leaders accountable, the mass atrocities will continue to happen.

Ohh please, what did the US do to stop Putin's aggression in Europe? What did the US do against Krim and Ukraine? Nothing, but talking. What do they against Russian airstrikes in the middle east? Nothing but talking. If Russia invaded the Baltics today (members of NATO) the US would just talk to Russia, but not send a single airplane or soldiers, because "Muh America first!".

"The U.S needs to stop their interventionist foreign policy!"

"The U.S does nothing and needs to intervene more"

Stop being a hypocrite and pick one.

you even terror yourself and blow up your own Trade Center. Patenthic.

I thought you said your education system was supposed to be superior to ours? This statement doesn't convince me.

They don't have the capability or technology to build an empire.

?????

They have the world's largest population, so can in theory field an army as large as they desire. They have most the natural resources they need. As for technology they're quickly approaching on-par with the rest of the world. Chinese empire building would be fairly easy if they had the desire to do so. The main reason they don't is because China can currently get just about whatever it wants by throwing their economic weight around, so military coercion isn't necessary.

I am actually more worried about US-Supremacy, because they have the technology and ressources to seriously be a threat to the world.

Yeah, the U.S sure has been annexing a lot of smaller countries lately haven't they? I'm sure Mexico and Canada are shaking in fear of U.S tanks about to blitz across the border at any moment.

the record of guilty nations.

Every nation is guilty of something. Your overzealous desire for "justice" would leave everyone suffering worse than before.

"The U.S needs to stop their interventionist foreign policy!"

"The U.S does nothing and needs to intervene more"

Stop being a hypocrite and pick one.

Pretty much what I said up there. Couldn't agree more. People (even a lot of Americans) just want an excuse to hate the US.

Hating the American goverment is absolutely justified, no doubt about it.

The government, yes. Everyone hates the US government, myself included. But we're talking about the US as a whole. The government is just a small part of the US.

The USA is based on a republic, so the goverment represents the voters.

Yeah, the U.S sure has been annexing a lot of smaller countries lately haven't they?

that's not the point, no country has been doing that for a very long time (militarily), the point is that they're violent and have colossal arms industries and lobbies, the biggest in the world, and for them, the most profitable war is an unending one.

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