I hope William Wallace's dream finally comes true forever this time.

The fact that you think the U.K will keep you financially secure proves by itself that you have no economic sense.

Look around you Arun. What makes you think that the U.K is a poster boy for economic security?

Please give me facts and figures if they are from the co-coalition especially, I could do with a chuckle :)

Edited 9/9/2014 22:46:38

if anything England would suffer form the loss of Scotland as they would lose the oil fields on the noth sea currently under the UK, that would become Scottish property

I'd certainly be less at risk without the threat of another bailing out hanging over Westminster's head!

Still no facts, still no figures, just you heard from the media cos Osborne said this might happen and you parrot it like a good little worker.

Facts? No, Figures? No, Just parrot what you heard. That's better than making sense anyway ... sigh

ps have you considered politics? You have the natural eel like quality of wriggling away from addressing any point anyone brings up ... you should give it a thought.

You'd be shit, but likely you'd persuade others like you, by refusing to answer any question that that was good sense, I think people think wriggling away from an answer is what makes a politician these days so give it ago :(

Edited 9/9/2014 23:25:34

Ska what figures have you given?? You're just attempting to make my arguement fail as yours is piss poor. Give me the figures that Scotland is economically sound! Even if you do get that, give me proof they will have stable currency! Scotland as a country is as uncertain as quantum physics and the risks are massive! Why change for the sake of change?

That is a lot of hyperbole.

These are some pretty Shite arguments..... :D

Arun just read this and think whether or not you can trust the opinion of a Nobel Price winning economist or the hot air receding from Osborne's ass? Of course Osborne and the rest of them are just saying things to keep the UK together at this point, but if you don't think that BOTH England and Scotland would suffer tremendously from not sharing the sterling, you need to do more studying at your university.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28929433

Also where are you coming up with that Scotland isn't economically sound? Scotland pays more in UK taxes than it receives in budget from the UK treasury! Scotland has done this for the past 30+ years. What does that tell you? If Scotland was the elephant in the room, costing the UK money, wouldn't they also be pushing for Scottish independence so the EU would deal with it?

Money aside (says the american to the welshman wtf!, should we switch passports?) even if Scotland hit a slight decline, it still wouldn't change the fact that Scotland could choose to keep NHS, free tuition, etc. etc.

With UK and Westminster becoming more and more conservative, I can really sympathize with the Scottish situation. I'm someone is off the charts left in US politics. My ideas that we should be taxed more (especially the rich who get off with not paying their share) and we should have free health care and education, is seen as crazy back in the states. Due to the two party system in the US and how very few other socialists there are in the US, my voice isn't heard in the states. Virtually the same situation that Scotland has been in, yet now they can vote to make their voice the only voice in their nation? Why wouldn't they want that?

Maybe it is hard for you to understand as you and many in the UK are fine with the privatization of health care, tax cuts to the rich, and all that other bullshit nonsense that the states has infected the UK with. Scotland does not want any of that. You can argue all you want about money, but at the end of the day this far more than just money.

don't tell him hes wrong, don't tell him hes wrong, don't tell him hes a socialist moron, don't, don't, don't.

You or anyone else can speak their minds if they wish, I would never say they shouldn't.

After spending 22 years of being a socialist in america, do think it is easy to upset me? I've heard it all before. My favorite is when someone younger than me (I hadn't even been alive for a year when the USSR ended) calls me a Soviet bastard. Always give me a good laugh.

At the end of the day, money is going to be the deciding factor in every case. Any risk to money I cannot sport, particularly when it isn't necessary. Why can't Scotland devolve further in a gradual and less fractious manner? Because that prat Alex Salmond is pushing for as violent a split as possible.

Its well known that Arun makes very clever arguments.

What are these devolution plans? If I'm not mistaken all three major parties have said they will agree on some sort of devolution, but what? What exactly is Westminster offering with a no vote? Why didn't Westminster already propose future powers that would go into effect on the 18th with a no vote?

Also, how is Alex Salmond pushing this violently? He has said he would like enter a monetary union with the UK if Scotland votes yes, right? That would good for Scotland and the UK both. Has he said anything that indicates he wants to "stick it" to the UK. No, he just wants Scotland to be an independent country with complete control over keeping the NHS, free university tuition, etc. etc.

A monetry union would be good for the UK? Losing some of our sovereignty over our currency?

Alex Salmond wants an instant split. I'm not anti-independence. I'm against the risks of a sudden split. I would be more than happy if the Yes vote goes through and the SNP negotiate an incremented split. It would be great!

How much trade does Scotland and England have right now? You don't think there would be additional costs for both sides there would be if an independent Scotland used another currency?

To be fair this is my assessment of currency options:

Monetary Union: Good, again there is so much trade and the economies are similar enough where both sides would benefit.

Euro: Nope

New Currency: Honestly would be best in the long term. For the next few years Scotland could use the Sterling informally and then convert to their own currency. Would allow for Scotland's exports to be competitive to the beat of Scotland's economy.

Regardless, Alex Salmond and Westminster would sit down for over the next year and half an figure things out. It is not like Salmond will ask for everything to be sorted out like removing trident from Scotland by the March of 2016 (believe they said 2020 will be when Scotland tries to negotiate trident leaving)? Scotland will become independent then, but it will no doubt take time to sort things out. Why would you think differently?

Arun talking out of his behind again. It will not be a "sudden split"

How many times - if you don't know any facts don't throw around your opinions and pretend they are :(

From http://www.scotland.gov.uk

You can download the full document there or view online:

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/0043/00439021.pdf

Tl;DR There will be two years before Scotland comes into it's powers as an independent state and during that time the Parliments of all countries involved have agreed to work together to try their best to make sure it works.

Becoming independent - the transition

Timetable for negotiations

Following a vote for independence in the referendum on
18 September 2014, there will be a period of preparation for
Scotland to become an independent country. Setting a realistic
independence date of 24 March 2016 will allow time for the
preparations necessary for the Scottish Parliament to take on
the new powers of independence to be completed.
This period between the referendum and independence will
see negotiations with the rest of the UK, represented by
the Westminster Government, and with the EU and other
international partners and organisations. Following these
preparations and negotiations, Scotland will assume our status
as an independent country before the Scottish parliamentary
elections in May 2016.
In the Edinburgh Agreement signed by the First Minister
and the Prime Minister on 15 October 2012, the Scottish
and Westminster Governments committed to work together
constructively in light of the outcome of the referendum in the
best interests of the people of Scotland and the rest of the UK12.
Following a vote for independence in 2014, agreements will be
needed between the Scottish and Westminster Governments,
in the spirit of the Edinburgh Agreement, setting the parameters
for Scotland’s transition to independence. These will set out:
■■ the precise timetable towards independence day in 2016
■■ the constitutional platform for an independent Scotland – the
laws and administrative arrangements to establish Scotland
as an independent state
■■ the process and timetable for the negotiations, and
conclusion of the agreements which will form the final
independence settlement
Negotiations settle the terms
and transition arrangements, for
approval by both Parliaments.
Elections determine who will
form the first government of
an independent Scotland.
The Referendum decides
whether Scotland should be
an independent country.
SEPTEMBER 2014 BY MARCH 2016 MAY 2016
298070_CHAP_1_FIN.indd 51 19/11/2013 14:1052
Chapter 1
PART 1 The Case for Independence
It will be in the interests of both countries for the governments
to make rapid and constructive progress on these negotiations,
in line with the commitments made in the Edinburgh Agreement.
It would assist in preparing for the negotiations if discussions
between the governments were to take place prior to the
referendum, and the Scottish Government will continue to press
for such engagement.
A Yes vote will require work to be undertaken within the
Scottish Government, drawing on external advice and expertise
from within civic society and our academic and business
communities.
The negotiating team will be led by the First Minister, and the
process will include figures from across Scottish public life and
Scotland’s other political parties. During the transition period the
Government will seek the agreement of the Scottish Parliament
to extend its sitting days to ensure full democratic scrutiny of
the process and to provide adequate time for the necessary
legislation to be passed.

Edited 9/10/2014 10:56:30

G. Arun. Go outside and play. You're distracting the grown ups.

I can understand the fear of the run.
You have to remember Ska2D2 probably true you're right ...
But you have to look at the collapse of the British majority the chance that the UK does not have many natural resources.
You have to remember that perhaps 5 million people will have to self-determination.
But 50 + million Englishmen suffer economic collapse and political anarchy.
Anyway the economic situation in Europe is not good.

I don't know where I got that from. That's a bad mistake :/Assumining the split is not violent, the risks are indeed lower, though definitely not eliminated.