There's another point of bias, I completely forgot about them.

If I ever made a 2.0 version;

- 20 aren't a clan.
- SNinja move in.
- Rank top 25-50 depending on time
- French move up

Edited 12/27/2015 15:05:43

Funny threat,
i wondered what u wrote about Vs "You often see these members in Ladders, where they do quite well in the 50-150 range." i guess its more between 15 and 50

your highest ranked is currently 27, so I suppose 25-75 would be more accurate and precise.

corp is alot of rp

No REGL in the list :'(

Ohyeah, I was gonna mention I found it funny you said Apex was on a slight rise (most people considered us rank 1 I think in most lists), but then put us at rank 2. I had this conversation with MoD and MotD last night:

Yeah, Masters is a clan with a fuckton of potential, activity, and highly skilled players. In terms of activity, community achievement, Masters is probably the best clan right now. If you want to be at the center of a highly active WarLight community that develops CLOTs, competes on a regular basis in WGL and RT tournaments, Masters is the shit. There's 2 problems I see, Masters will release a roster in which no player plays more than 3 events most likely. Apex by default has to have 2-3 players play in 4 events. This gives an unspoken benefit to Apex, as we're able to put our best in their best formats. Masters are great at RT and thinking very fast, but it's easy to get lazy in MD tournaments. The slow pace of Clan League suits the way most of Apex already plays, slow, and probably wondering why we haven't retired yet. I know I personally play better in an MD fashion unless I'm actually speaking verbally with my RT partners. It's just how I'm used to thinking and playing. Most of Apex is like that.

So my point here is, Apex can and will win clan league vs Masters. And we're not gonna lose it to GG either. Honestly, I fear French much more than GG, and feel we got very lucky that Gui got booted from some important games in the Clan League. GG are better now with Peixoto, but their clan has always been super lackluster in 3v3 europe.

We're not the Apex that people talked about years ago, only being competent in 1v1 templates and unable to perform at a high level in 2v2 and 3v3. We've learned. We've recruited people who are very good at that, so unless you can field a very consistent roster that is more talented than we are, Apex will continue to win at this format. I cannot speak for when we change formats for the CL or past CL8 in general, but we're still going to be the favorites moving forward.

Ohyeah, I still think French is scariest in CL8, if Gui is active enough to participate without being booted.

MoD and Lolowut nailed it!

Honestly I can agree with most of the rankings but for different reasons. I would say Apex on decline despite gaining Beren and MotD or maybe say neutral for them.... and GG is definitly continuing to rise and French is always that Dark Horse in the race that everyone forgets about :P

I would say Apex on decline despite gaining Beren and MotD or maybe say neutral for them

That's something I don't understand. Is apex an alt clan? It seem to me they allowed only multiaccount. Except beren, Master of the dead and miagi joined both with alts and let the main account in Masters. So I doubt they can be considered as an addiction to the clan duo they aren't properly in 1 of them. Should we consider them as half joined?
I honestly don't understand this.
Also in the other hand can we considered them as master clan? they both have alts in another clan "ranked A in the list of better clans".

Edited 12/27/2015 19:28:38

They play their main accounts for whichever clan they prefer for clan league. For example I am a Master and Icelandic Turtle. I use this account for all Turtle events and I can use it in either clan for clan league. Its like dual enrollment or dual citizenship. I don't know who MotD or Miyagi is playing for in clan league but that doesnt really matter. Also Noobschool has an alt in there. People just like being apart of multiple communities.

So in few words this ranking is not impartial duo is based on people who play for multiple clans and it didn't take care on multiple accounts.
If Motd and miagy and you join another random clan with alts will they all be ranked as top clans??

If we all join more then 1 clan, this classification have no sense by my pov a player ranking has more sense instead of clan rankings.

We are proving this method, as all others, is not serious.

A decent ranking is based on 1 single player/person in 1 single clan, not with alts in more clans.

I'll do my list. I'll not do analysis (I might, but not yet at least), and expect it to be slightly worse than Ben, because I know less than him about this =P

1. Apex
2. GG
3. Masters
4. French
5. WG
6. Turtles
7. Lynx
8. [20]
9. AHoL
10. VS
11. ONE!
12. Blitz
13. Warlighters
14. VIW
15. REGL
16. SNinja
17. M'Hunters
18. Illuminati
19. AWF
20. Lu Fredd
21. Stahl
22. CORP
23. Yin Yang
24. BIA
25. 101st
26. General Chou's
27. Juggernauts
28. Olympus
29. BR
30. LEA
31. Statisticians
32. High Kings
33. FBG
34. Divided We Fall
35. Poon Squad
36. Dutch Forever
37. {rp}
38. Hawks
39. Tranquility
40. Lost Wolves

As you can tell my list is probably horrible and in no way accurate, but I tried. It gets particularly inaccurate past the 20 mark.

Edited 12/27/2015 23:36:21

problem is how would you rank the clans? in a proper unbiased manner. Benjamin is an asshole and this thread is biased. If someone were to make a proper way of ranking the clans it should be done by a person who isn't in a clan but has a good understanding of the abilities of all the clans.

You can't evaluate the clans because you are not in said clan. Also how would you define the rank since some clans are pro's at 1v1 but everyone keeps to themselves while others are pros at teamgames.

Chris has done a great job with the Clan league but this still isn't the best way to evaluate clans but it may be the closest we can get to an evaluation on the strategic skills of clans. The problem with the clan league as an evaluation however is that not the best players may be partaking and not every clan participates in the clan league either.

you should be reported for that nogals

TLDR : Everyone who comments on clans are biased to various degrees. Qi is biased, JSA is biased, I am biased, and so are you.

I agree with Pulsey here. Even not being in a clan, you will have biases towards certain clans depending on who you have played in those clans.

Lolowut's post is interesting and points out a major flaw in rating clans other than biases. Namely, how do you rate them? Lolowut seems to rate clans based on how they would do in the clan league. I think this is a legitimate way to rank them, but a clan should not be punished because they would theoretically choose to play everyone in the clan league. Also, do you rate clans by their top 5 players? Their top 10 players? Does Master of the Dead count for Apex or Masters? If 2 clans each have 10 players on equal levels, but one clan has 50 more players that aren't as good, does this make that clan better or worse? For instance, French's bottom players are much worse than other top clans. Yet their best players have shown they can compete with the best of other clans.

Basically, I think there is no way to accurately rank the best clans, as everyone has a different opinion of what makes a clan the best. I believe we can have a decent idea of which clans are the best, and which clans are close, but deciding between clans like Apex, GG, and Masters is quite difficult, and there is no great objective way to do it.

^ had the same thought.

if everyone had the same priorities, at least when it came down to rating clans, then it would be possible, but this is obviously not the case :P

a simple overall score is certain to be disagreed with, but the ones which break the analysis up into different subtopics (like the better "Under the Microscope" posts I think) are more likely to be agreeable to everyone.

If people only played for a single clan, it would be easier. but ladders should count. Clan league should not be the only measure, though I hope it is the #1 goal of all clans.

@MoD I disagree. I strongly dislike Nogals, but he shouldn't be reported for expressing his opinion

@Everyone Else, yeah, there is no real way to measure clans in an unbiased way because there is no real way to measure how good a clan is. I put Masters at #1 because of their depth. I exaggerated saying that Masters will win CL8, but they are a podium clan for sure.

Can we come to an evaluation
Why not
● ChrisCMU
● Master of desaster
● Lolowut

Create a list of clan rankings it would be great to see what they think on this scenario

Except they are biased as well; it's evident even in this thread. So no, not a single person is qualified to rate clans.

God you lot bore me. Yada Yoda Yoshi.